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So, how is the subscription working out for you?

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David Mathis
So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 25, 2015 at 4:17:38 am

We are all adults so I do hope there will be mature conservation here. Please no flaming arrows, torches, or pitchforks. :-)

In all seriousness, wanting to know how things are working out in general. What is good? What is not working? What would you like see changed, leaving out the idea of a permanent license? Carry on and debate away!

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!



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Rich Rubasch
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 25, 2015 at 4:52:27 pm

I think it will remain pretty quiet on the subject until Adobe doubles the price after we are all locked in with projects all piled up.

Then we'll hear some chatter.

Rich

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Jason Watson
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 25, 2015 at 6:32:19 pm

I've been on CC since it first rolled out and I have really enjoyed it. A few highlights for me:

1. I was one of those people who always needed the Master Collection, and so CC is actually less expensive for me year-to-year (I also upgraded every year). I also like how the subscription model allows me to cost out the price of the software on a month-to-month basis.

2. Access to TypeKit is definitely valuable. Most (if not all) of my clients are on CC as well, and so being able to use TypeKit fonts helps for passing off projects for final renders, modifications, etc., without having to worry too much about missing fonts and such.

3. I really have been enjoying the mobile integration with Adobe's mobile apps. Adobe Hue and Adobe Color are not only fun to play with, but I use them all the time in putting together ideas for color schemes or capturing a look when I'm in the moment for reference, or even for implementation.

4. Libraries has been a feature that has really upped my efficiency. I routinely jump back and forth between Pr, Ae, Ps and Ai for nearly every project, and so being able to collect all the assets, colors and such in one place is extremely useful. In addition, it functions as a psuedo Color Swatch panel in Ae, which is certainly welcome.

5. Lumetri in Pr is a great addition, and for many of my editing projects I can stay within Pr. I'm interested to see its implementation in Ae.


There have been a few issues and some things I'd like to see improved:

1. More consistent tech support. I ran into an issue where CC seemed to think all my apps were in trial version, and so it kept locking me out. This was rather late at night, and so I tried the online tech support chat. The first staff member led me through most of the standard troubleshooting steps that I had already tried, and eventually had me try some other things that didn't work. I logged off the chat and logged on again to speak to someone else. This staff member was able to resolve my issue in about 5 minutes. Definitely would have been nice to have the first hour back.

2. Consistency in Libraries across apps. As much as I like the Libraries feature, I think that its implementation is not quite there. In Ai, for example, sometimes it will just stop working, and I have to restart to get it back. Its implementation in Ae seems a little tacked on right now; for instance, to change a fill color in either Ps or Ai I simply select the layer/object and click on the color and the fill changes. In Ae I have to select the layer, open up the color picker and then pick the color. Kind of an annoying extra step. No doubt there is something specific to Ae that makes it this way, but it makes the whole Libraries experience feel somewhat disjointed.

3. This is a small gripe, but disabling the welcome/tutorial screens seems rather hit or miss. It seems almost every time I tell certain programs to get rid of them going forward, but it doesn’t always seem to stick. I’d prefer that they were just in there as part of the Help section that I had to intentionally access from the get go, but ultimately it’s not a huge deal.

4. Lumetri doesn’t seem to work with Media Encoder out of Pr. I know there are workarounds, but it makes the implementation of what is an outstanding feature (which works brilliantly within Pr) feel incomplete, especially for such an important part of the workflow.


All in all I’m very satisfied with CC, and I’m glad to see that Adobe has kept up the pace of its development. As long as they keep delivering, they’ll continue to have my business.


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David Mathis
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 25, 2015 at 6:52:53 pm

I do enjoy my Photoshop subscription as well. I did not subscribe to the master collection, not because of subscription only but because my needs are met by other software at the moment.

While there has been improvement to Premiere Pro, I still find it not meeting my needs. Perhaps because of the timeline in Final Cut Pro X, guess it comes to personal choice although it just feels more fluid.

Along those same lines, I don't do any high-end motion graphics work. Usually a simple title card or some additional finishing task.

I do own a Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera which makes Resolve a useful tool for color grading and some finishing work.

I prefer Fusion for finishing a single shot because of its node based approach. Also, it is nice to give another name to the tool (node) in the flow making it more efficient whenever I open a project (composition) again. Have not seen the color correction tools in After Effects since I have not used it recently.

As for Photoshop, this is my go to tool for touching up a photo or preparing motion graphics for handing off to another program like Motion or Fusion for the finishing touch. Nice set of robust tools though I prefer the color correction tools in Fusion. I realize not everyone needs a waveform or vector scope. I do like the curves and levels adjustment in Photoshop, they are more than sufficient.

Mask tools are a bit of a mixed bag. Photoshop does offer a nice feature set to remove an object from its background and have improved on those tools. When it comes to more advanced masking techniques, Fusion and After Effects will be more appropriate.

Just my observation and unless there is a significant increase in the subscription cost, not likely to use anything else. A bit of a concern with any subscription plan, not just with Adobe.


P.S. Jason, thank you for your analysis. That was the type of answer I was looking for! Hope my answer was not too off topic, just wanted to give my two cents.

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!



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Ricardo Marty
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 26, 2015 at 12:17:40 am

Is ps extended on the cc lineup?

Ricardo Marty


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David Mathis
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 26, 2015 at 12:28:08 am

Yes. I think when they started CC they did away with the standard Photoshop and now it is the extended version only its called Photoshop now. Whether you go with the photo plan or the entire collection you get the extended version of Photoshop.


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Steve Connor
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 26, 2015 at 6:55:14 pm

Very happy with my CC subscription and the pace of development, even if some of the releases have been a bit buggy.


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 12:48:40 pm

The clients I have that are on CC are very happy with it. Personally I think Premiere Pro CC2015 is buggier than CC2014. SpeedGradeCC has become completely unuseable. It feels like Adobe is under pressure to keep producing results and therefore pushing product out the door a bit too early.

As far as FCPX, I think users of X who have to deal with outside clients and agencies in particular, plus suppliers like graphic designeers and animators, need to maintain compatibility with Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects. So even in the X-centric world, it's hard to get around needing a subscription to CC.

Right now my biggest issue is audio. It seems that OMF/AAF compatibility between Premiere Pro and audio tools like Pro Tools or Logic Pro X is very inconsistent and unreliable. You get better results if you use X or definitely if you cut in Media Composer.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Mathis
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 4:21:15 pm

Great analysis Oliver and spot on! Being on a hobby level and occasional freelance, budget does come into play a bit more which is why I subscribe to just Photoshop for the moment. As business grows and more work comes my way what you are saying will become a big factor.

I am playing around with Fusion and can say without a doubt, it is not meant for motion graphics. The other downside is OFX support which is in Studio version, not yet available for Mac, and support is limited to just Genarts Sapphire from what I understand.

I think Adobe probably has the best plug-in support with Apple a very close second. Resolve has gained some additional support as well.

I have put my personal thoughts about subscription only out of the discussion and my fears mostly behind me. I am glad to see Adobe to innovate but prefer a much a more slower and stable pace. A too constant update cycle can cause major bug issues. As they say, "We can't have our cake and eat it too." A very true and spot on statement.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 9:41:40 pm

[Oliver Peters] " SpeedGradeCC has become completely unuseable. It feels like Adobe is under pressure to keep producing results and therefore pushing product out the door a bit too early."

At least with regards to SG, do you think it's getting 2nd class treatment since Adobe focused on putting Lumetri Color in PPro?


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 9:51:42 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "At least with regards to SG, do you think it's getting 2nd class treatment since Adobe focused on putting Lumetri Color in PPro?"

As it relates to CC2015, absolutely. Hopefully, there's some ongoing development that will show up in the next 6 months (or by NAB). Otherwise they might as well pull the plug on SG.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 10:25:02 pm

[Oliver Peters] "As it relates to CC2015, absolutely. Hopefully, there's some ongoing development that will show up in the next 6 months (or by NAB). Otherwise they might as well pull the plug on SG."

I haven't upgraded to CC2014 yet, but I really liked the integration Adobe had being creating between PPro and SG. I will be bummed if it withers away though I wonder how much time/money Adobe is willing to put into SG when Resolve Lite is so well known, feature rich and free?


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 28, 2015 at 10:35:04 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I haven't upgraded to CC2014 yet, but I really liked the integration Adobe had being creating between PPro and SG."

The integration is still there, but performance in SG has taken a nose dive. Plus, the Lumetri panel effects in CC2015 are closed and cannot be accessed within SG.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David McGavran
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 1:15:34 pm

These issues have been addressed in the latest patches.

Cheers

Dave

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David McGavran, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Senior Engineering Manager Adobe Premiere Pro
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 1:52:22 pm

[David McGavran] "These issues have been addressed in the latest patches."

Thanks for the feedback. But, do you mean SG performance using Direct Link? I'm all patched up and it's not greatly improved. That's on a 2009 Mac Pro with a Sapphire 7950 card. Resolve 12 on the same machine is perfectly responsive. SG must get as responsive as PPro if Adobe expects anyone to use it. Especially now that the Lumetri Color panel is part of PPro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Oct 4, 2015 at 2:02:42 am

The existng issues may have been addressed with the most recent bug fix. Unfortunately, new ones have arisen.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gary Huff
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 29, 2015 at 6:15:23 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Otherwise they might as well pull the plug on SG."

They should. They need to compete with Resolve now. They need to incorporate Speedgrade into Premiere and nix it as it's own separate software.


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 29, 2015 at 9:22:03 pm

[Gary Huff] "They need to incorporate Speedgrade into Premiere and nix it as it's own separate software."

Actually the Direct Link used to work extremely well. No real need to integrate the two apps into a single app. DL performance went downhill big time with CC2015. I actually like the results I get in SG a bit better than Resolve, so I hope DL gets fixed.

The reason I don't think it makes sense to combine the two tools into one is that editing and grading are two different mindsets. That's why I think full-blown editing in Resolve isn't really a good idea.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ryan Holmes
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 12:56:10 am

[Oliver Peters] "Actually the Direct Link used to work extremely well. No real need to integrate the two apps into a single app. DL performance went downhill big time with CC2015. I actually like the results I get in SG a bit better than Resolve, so I hope DL gets fixed."

I don't think SG has ever really competed with Resolve even going back to 2012 when SG was rolled out with the Adobe suite. Blackmagic's update pace with Resolve has been furious since they bought it back in 2009. So by the time Adobe showed up with it's pre-purchased (formerly Iridas) color grading software they were 3 years behind Blackmagic (and 5 years behind Apple, except Apple pulled the plug on Color when X shipped in 2011).

All that to say, I think the biggest benefit SG has going for it is it's integration with the Adobe family. But the workflow and feature set just hasn't competed with Resolve, in my opinion (playback performance, format support - which transcoded everything to DPX when it first debuted with CS6). To get my shop to switch from the known Premiere-->Resolve-->Premiere workflow would mean killer integration between the two, to the point where it just wouldn't make sense time-wise to bother with Resolve. But Blackmagic has continued to refine the XML/AAF interchange as well to the point where it's about as painless as it can be provided you have media with timecode.

Which leads me to wonder why Adobe would continue to expend resources on SG. Like Andrews said, Resolve is free. So it's not as though Adobe is including a world class color corrector in the suite when you can't get your hands on another one for an affordable price (like Apple did with Color). SG is competing in a landscape saturated with Resolve, Magic Bullet Looks, Colorista, etc. Part of me wonders if Adobe just wanted the Lumetri engine codebase for inclusion in Premiere, much like Apple bought Shake for the optical flow technology which made it into Motion shortly thereafter. Apple then dropped development for Shake. Is SG on a similar path?

[Oliver Peters] "Personally I think Premiere Pro CC2015 is buggier than CC2014."

I realize all of these responses are anecdotal. Oliver has his experience, I have mine, Andrew has his, etc. I haven't had any problems with CC2015 over CC2014. All software crashes. All computers lock-up. I haven't noticed anything more with CC2015 over 2014. And I've not found anything that's repeatable causing "buginess." And that's not to say there isn't something like that in the software, just that my workflow must not touch it. So my experience has bene rosy just banging away on the software.

[David Mathis] "In all seriousness, wanting to know how things are working out in general. What is good? What is not working? What would you like see changed, leaving out the idea of a permanent license? "

I don't have any complaints really about CC. We run about 50 licenses here, most of those device based licenses (meaning the license is tied to a machine and not a user) without any problems. Adobe's up-time for their servers has been nearly flawless, save for that 24-hour outage back in 2013 when they first migrated over to CC. I've thoroughly enjoyed being able to log into any machine, anywhere with my CC ID and have all my settings, workspaces, etc transfer over. The pace of development is nothing short of extradorinaiy with great new features added in multiple times per year (Morph Cut has been such a great addition, as has the Lumetri color corrector in Premiere). I love the dynamic link integration between Premiere, After Effects, and Photoshop. Not having to render out ProRes4444 with an alpha channel has kinda spoiled me (all I have to do is bring in the After Effects project file into Premiere and drop it on the timeline).

Bottom line: if you want to hate Adobe then you can spin the narrative that fits that view ("burn the boats," rental model, too much development to fast, bad customer support, prices are bound to rise, etc). And if you want to love Adobe then you can spin the narrative to fit that view as well (constant updates, new versions always available, low cost of entry, Adobe able to more adequately address bugs because of rental model, etc). Ultimately, all the NLE's available today are capable of getting the job done, whether that's corporate video, broadcast TV, film, weddings, etc. So it's really up to the user what suits their budget, workflow, and needs.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 1:16:14 am

[Ryan Holmes] "I don't think SG has ever really competed with Resolve even going back to 2012 when SG was rolled out with the Adobe suite."

I'm not sure what Adobe's plans are for SG, but their original reason for picking up the Iridas team was to gain expertise in color management. This got us the Lumetri tools and other cool features. SG is largely a byproduct of that deal.

[Ryan Holmes] "To get my shop to switch from the known Premiere-->Resolve-->Premiere workflow would mean killer integration between the two"

While that workflow can be good, I've had very definite problems with it when grading RED jobs where a lot of reframing was used. Resolve completely trashed the transform info. But it's "taster's choice". Personally I think Resolve has an outstanding toolkit, but I feel like the correction is harsh at times. For more standard grades, I still prefer Color over Resolve and Speedgrade is a second. But only because of the result, not necessarily the tools.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ryan Holmes
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 1:21:23 am

[Oliver Peters] " For more standard grades, I still prefer Color over Resolve and Speedgrade is a second. But only because of the result, not necessarily the tools."

So you're still using Apple Color for grading projects? Does that still run under 10.10.X or the forthcoming 10.11.X (not trying to be rude here...just genuinely curious).

For me the tracking in resolve sealed the deal for me. Color's 1-point tracker pales in comparison to the Resolve tracker. I also think Resolve has really refined the user interface making Resolve more approachable. However, I've working with Resolve since version 7 so I'm not exactly a "new user" at this point. But Color is where I learned the in's and out's of grading, and for that reason it will always hold a dear spot to me.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Oliver Peters
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 1:27:44 am

[Ryan Holmes] "So you're still using Apple Color for grading projects? Does that still run under 10.10.X or the forthcoming 10.11.X (not trying to be rude here...just genuinely curious)."

I did earlier this year and several projects last year. I think that machine was on some version of 10.9. The main reason was because there was a Kona card connected. But there's a lot of the workflow in Color that I find to be significantly faster than in SG or Resolve.

[Ryan Holmes] "For me the tracking in resolve sealed the deal for me."

Oh, I completely agree. Resolve's tracker is superb. And just for the record, the last two, big long-form jobs I graded were done in Resolve.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Mathis
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 5:52:08 am

Anyone have experience with Baselight? I have heard and read great things about it. Downside is that is very expensive. I think more than the full blown Resolve with that Star Trek looking panel.

I have played with color correction in Fusion, just for fun. Really nice to see scopes but not as robust as Resolve. Still it is very powerful.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Sep 30, 2015 at 6:32:58 am

[Ryan Holmes] " To get my shop to switch from the known Premiere-->Resolve-->Premiere workflow would mean killer integration between the two, to the point where it just wouldn't make sense time-wise to bother with Resolve."

I haven't done much with the PPro/Resolve combo but when I did a lot of FCP/Color round tripping my dream was to some day have the type of integration that PPro and SG have. Many times the editing and grading were still being finalized within hours of air and the Export XML to Color->Grade->generate new media->Export XML to FCP dance got old pretty quick. It's no wonder so may Avid shows on tight turnaround finish on Symphony.

Has anyone used Resolve in a multiuser setting where the editing and grading are happening on the same timeline at the same time?


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David Mathis
Re: So, how is the subscription working out for you?
on Oct 10, 2015 at 3:15:03 am

Well said, in particular in your response to my questions. I neither love or hate Adobe, any company in fact. Everyone has different needs and I respect that. My choice to go in another direction has nothing to do with the business model Adobe has chosen In fact, decided to give Sapphire a try for a three month period. The pernament license is a bit expensive but will consider it as an option. Might upgrade to annual subscription. Having this choice benefits me but everyone has their needs. What works for me might not work for you. Go with what works.


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