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Strategies to get off the Cloud

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Bob Cole
Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 5, 2015 at 10:05:06 pm

My subscription price just jumped dramatically, which makes me think about switching away from CC.

What are some of the gotchas, and some of the strategies, to transition existing CC projects (mainly After Effects and Premiere) to earlier versions, as well as competing software? XML for Premiere, but what about After Effects?

Thanks.

Bob C


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 5, 2015 at 11:07:36 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Aug 5, 2015 at 11:08:12 pm

Start backsavin' them AE projects!

With the AE applications on the cloud -- to which you still have access -- you can backsave 2015 to 2014.... 2014 to 2012... 2012 to CS6... and CS6 to CS 5.5.

Of course, as you backsave you lose the features you may have used in later versions.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Pettit
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 5, 2015 at 11:21:28 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "With the AE applications on the cloud -- to which you still have access -- you can backsave 2015 to 2014.... 2014 to 2012... 2012 to CS6... and CS6 to CS 5.5."

Sounds like so much fun.

Let us know how that goes Bob, many people may be in the same situation you are in at some point.


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Casimir Artmann
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 6:19:20 am

Works as long as you can run the old applications on a supported OS. And you may have trouble to use new hardware.

I don't see this a a viable long term solution :-(


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Gary Huff
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 6:56:30 am

[Casimir Artmann] "I don't see this a a viable long term solution :-("

XML Gibson might be of interest. Your mileage may vary.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 10:25:56 am

Regarding After Effects down-versioning:

[Gary Huff] "XML Gibson might be of interest. Your mileage may vary."

pt_OpenSesame [link] is another option along these lines.

However, no script has access to data from custom controls, like the Levels histogram or the Curves curve. Text formatting is limited and some will be lost in translation. Other features like the Paint, Rotobrush and Puppet tools are unsupported.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 1:00:33 am

Two words: "legacy machine". Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp srick.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 5, 2015 at 11:27:33 pm

Sorry (not very helpful), but this question seems to target all those who argumented "...you will never loose file access after subscription…"
As far as I know, there is no way to save out AE projects with full support of all features.
But if there is a way to do so, I also would be glad to know...


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Gary Huff
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 6:54:15 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Aug 6, 2015 at 6:54:30 am

[Rainer Schubert] "Sorry (not very helpful), but this question seems to target all those who argumented "...you will never loose file access after subscription…""

Except no files are being lost. Only the ability to open the application needed to edit its own project files at this time.

Saying that you "lose" access to files is just fear-mongering because it gives the impression to less informed individuals that users will lose their media and renders primarily, that's why it was such a favored saying.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 7:15:40 pm

What Rainer was really saying is that you lose Project access. And a lot of work and time if you need to modify a project, which for many with repeat clients, is often.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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David Lawrence
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 6, 2015 at 8:25:45 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "What Rainer was really saying is that you lose Project access. And a lot of work and time if you need to modify a project, which for many with repeat clients, is often."

This. ^

The argument has never been about media assets or rendered output. The project file is where the work is stored. If you lose access to the project, you lose access to the work. Not a minor detail.

_______________________
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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 7, 2015 at 7:46:12 pm

[David Lawrence] "The project file is where the work is stored. If you lose access to the project, you lose access to the work."

But you DON'T lose access to your projects. You lose the ability to open them. If you have repeat clients, then you have an income stream that covers your cost. Or you have the ability to renew for a month and get the job done. Or you can sneakernet your media and project file to a friend who has an active account and do the work there. I realize it might seem like semantics, but there is a big difference between truly losing access and merely have a temporary inability to open them.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bob Cole
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 7, 2015 at 7:56:52 pm

All true, but there is a "hassle factor" to all of this. Much easier to capitulate to Adobe's pricing, or to find a clean alternative.

I'm thinking about the possibility of subscribing to just one or two Adobe products, and using my old versions for everything else. I have friends in the printing business who are quite productive with Adobe Photoshop from years ago.

Is there a significant drawback to using CS 5.5 versions of everything except Premiere? While I wait for Resolve to become a mature product?

Bob C


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 7, 2015 at 8:12:13 pm

[Bob Cole] "Is there a significant drawback to using CS 5.5 versions of everything except Premiere? While I wait for Resolve to become a mature product?"

This is a stable build and for AE, Illustrator and PSD you'd be fine. However, it really boils down to these factors:

1. Do you have to interchange files with clients or freelancers? Specifically, do you need to receive AE projects from clients or freelancers? Sending AE project files will also be an issue because support only goes back so far.

2. Do you need to use purchased AE templates?

3. Whether or not you will run into issues in the near term with any OS updates.

As far as editing tools, your best alternatives - completely free of subscription - are Media 100, FCP X, Resolve, Edius (I think), and Vegas. Avid would also be an option, but you'd be locked into the version you buy (after the first year of ownership) if you opted not to renew the annual support contract. The software continues to work, of course.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 7, 2015 at 9:04:46 pm

[Bob Cole] "Is there a significant drawback to using CS 5.5 versions of everything except Premiere? While I wait for Resolve to become a mature product?"

If you're not interested in CC, I'd consider at least stepping up to CS6.

In Ae, that gets you the global performance cache which greatly boosts performance in many situations, and it gets you the ray-tracing renderer, the 3D camera tracker, and variable-width mask feathering.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Lawrence
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 1:04:55 am

[Oliver Peters] "I realize it might seem like semantics, but there is a big difference between truly losing access and merely have a temporary inability to open them."

Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. ;)

For me, this goes beyond "a temporary inability to open" a project file. It's about who controls my ability to open the project file. The CC rental model gives Adobe complete control over whether the customer can open their work or not. This is a radical shift in the power relationship between vendor and customer. It doesn't matter if the file is on my hard drive if I don't control the ability to open it. I've lost access just as surely as if it were gone.

I see this as a digital rights issue. I'm perfectly willing to pay a vendor for their software, but I'm not willing to give a vendor control over whether I can access my work.

When Steve Jobs wrote his famous Thoughts on Flash, one of his strongest arguments was that Apple couldn't allow Adobe to dictate how the iOS platform developed. He was proven right. iOS has flourished and no one misses Flash on mobile. For me, the issue with rental is similar. It's not about money, it's about who gets to control what runs on my personal computer.

All Adobe has to do is offer a desktop version of their CC applications and we're good. ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 1:20:06 am

[David Lawrence] "For me, this goes beyond "a temporary inability to open" a project file. It's about who controls my ability to open the project file."

I don't disagree with your point. But I'm making a technical clarification while you are making a philosophical argument. Unfortunately framing it as 'losing access to files' makes it confusing. On the philosophy side, I don't disagree with the point. I just don't see it as quite as big of a deal, because it does have some advantages for some people. That and the fact that technically we never actually own the software we purchase anyway.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Lawrence
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 1:25:38 am

[Oliver Peters] "I don't disagree with your point. But I'm making a technical clarification while you are making a philosophical argument."

Fair enough! But isn't philosophy what these debate forums are all about? ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
http://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 12:43:53 pm

[David Lawrence] "But isn't philosophy what these debate forums are all about? ;)"

Well that's true, but you also have to be practical. All the forums threads in the world are unlikely to get Adobe to change its course. That will happen right after Apple puts tracks back into FCP X. ;-)

If you really want to impact change, then it has to be financial. And I don't mean sitting pat with an old version of the software that you own. For one thing, Adobe already made their money from you and second, you are still supporting the user base and the ecosystem. Therefore, you have to find alternatives and drop the Adobe products you are using. Shift to Affinity Photo, learn Motion, etc. At that point, if enough users follow suit, then Adobe ends up in a position of needing to win you back as a "new" customer.

I suspect that's too drastic of a move for most folks here, but, if you really believe in your position, then that's the course of action to take.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 1:56:08 pm

Well said & I also believe, it´s the only way to bring Adobe back on earth.
I have to see the CS-start-up Logos less and less…

But I don´t think, they will get me back, in 2020, when they have to come down from their "clouds".


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 11:12:48 am

"a temporary inability to open"
In case, you are not able to renew your subscription (lack of money f example | working in a place where CC isn´t available) it´s much more than a "temporary inability".
And also the fact that you have to pay again for the access to your projects and files changed radical with CC.
Also: You get no guaranty on future prices for the access to your archived CC-Files.
The fact, that you have to work on "Web-connected" Machines.
No. One cant break it down to a "temporary inability".
It´s like David said: Adobe gets control on your ability to open your work.


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Bill Davis
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 9, 2015 at 7:35:02 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Or you have the ability to renew for a month and get the job done. "

Just a question.

Has anyone here disabled your CC account. Then re-enabled it as suggested in this post?

Ive made a couple of posts on the challenges I've had dealing with activating and deactivating my CC Photo subscription, but am genuinely interested in whether my experiences are an anomaly or are par for the course?

So anyone here actually do that? Turn OFF a subscription until you need to do a particular project?

If so, how did it work?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 14, 2015 at 8:21:43 pm

[Bill Davis] "Has anyone here disabled your CC account. Then re-enabled it as suggested in this post?"

I have disabled-enabled three times already in a year. There's the nuisance of having to contact support to disable it, but at the end it's ten minutes to do so.


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Michael Hoefler
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 3:23:03 pm

Hi Bob
I am still with CC and will stay for longer. But if I want/have to quit, my option is, if I have to open a project again and have to work on this project, I just sign in for one month again. Well, honestly it is not quite often that I have to work on older projects, so this will be a very easy solution for me. No hassle, every new feature available for a small amount of money compared to the problems and time with transforming to old versions or XML.

Michael


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David Mathis
Re: Strategies to get off the Cloud
on Aug 8, 2015 at 5:02:49 pm

I am going to stick with the Photo Plan for now. After playing around with Resolve 12, I find several things I like. Edit page playback performance is very much improved but still needs some improvement. I don't do high end motion graphics work so I don't need After Effects as Motion does fit my needs for that. I do some freelance and basic graphic design so Photoshop is a must, for now. I am waiting on Fusion for Mac to come out, very nice mask tools and color correction. There, photos can be touched up for video and film projects, not for print due to the color space. Everyone has different needs and by not relying on anyone software vendor, let alone subscription only, there is much more room for flexibility.

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!



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