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Gustavo Bermudas
Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 1:51:51 am

I would encourage everyone to take at a look at it

https://www.facebook.com/adobecreativecloud

It's actually kind of comical, Adoble keeps posting about cool stuff you can do with Creative Cloud, and people are just rabid, completely tearing it apart, and it's amazing how much they turn a blind eye to all the comments and keep promoting it like it's the best thing.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 10:28:55 am

er, you might conceivably see someone with a name suspiciously similar to my own there - I looked to spoil milk there a bit too - but its true - I'm a drop in the ocean on the facebook site, the volume of complaint is surreal.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Greg Andonian
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 1:58:57 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] er, you might conceivably see someone with a name suspiciously similar to my own there -

By that same token... you may also see a few comments from a guy who has the same last name as me, whose first name is Derek- That's me.

I hadn't mentioned it here yet, but several months back I made the decision to change my name to Derek. I haven't done it officially yet, but in "real life" and several other places on the web I've been going by Derek for a while. I hadn't mentioned it here because I joined the COW way before I decided to do this, and I never felt the need to bring it up here until now.

My main reason for doing this, is I have the exact same name as my Dad, and I'd really like to have my own identity. There are other more complex factors that came up in recent years, but it all goes back to identity and confidence.

https://www.facebook.com/greg.andonian.5?ref=tn_tnmn

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 1:58:09 pm

Apparently Adobe is unaware that social media is... well, SOCIAL.

Those who participate expect a response: a two-way dialog. I didn't see any Adobe responses to people's comments. Thus, Adobe's Facebook page is nothing more than a handy place to see Adobe ads.

Anyone up for a fun-filled five minutes looking at ads?

Adobe may know how to create stuff for social media. It's sure doesn't know how to UTILIZE social media.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 2:32:36 pm

Wasn't it Applebees who tried to answer some social media thing and ended up creating an epic blunder of things? Probably best for Adobe not to answer...cuz while society as a whole tends to be ....idiotic..., there are some intelligent and witty peeps out there :) Of course, it doesn't help when the person answering the tweets and posts gets a little too emotional...hahahaha It does, however, make for some good reading! hahahahahaha

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:11:33 pm

[Tim Vaughan] "Probably best for Adobe not to answer..."

It would have been even better for Adobe if it hadn't chosen to go to Facebook AT ALL. Right now, this page consists of a bunch of Adobe ads, each followed by vitriolic pot shots from Adobe USERS. Hardly a ringing endorsement for Adobe, y'know?

What will you think if you're a prospect for Adobe software and you stumble on this page? Will you think that Adobe Creative Cloud is just the thing you need? From a social marketer's perspective, this is precisely what you should NOT do!

I can imagine how that page came into being: an individual in a large corner office in Adobe Central in San Jose sent down orders to create a CC Facebook page. This person's apparent logic: it's another way to get the word out, and it's easy to do... and Adobe employees most certainly know how to design elements that appear on the web! It's a chip shot! Besides, everybody's on Facebook! It'll be great.

But by failing to answer the comments, and not anticipating how to respond to the negative ones -- which is ALL of them -- the CC Facebook page does far more harm than it does good. It's a forum for those angry at Adobe, and by not responding, Adobe appears to have no response to the negative comments.

I can't help but think that a social marketing person at Adobe is having a conniption fit over this page, but orders from up high are indeed orders from up high.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 5:07:35 pm

I totally agree. Far too many companies seem to jump in without considering the ramifications of their actions. (Sound familiar???) Personally, I am quite amused by it. Especially when said company does something that works well in theory and the classroom, but has terrible results in reality.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 2:47:11 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "It's actually kind of comical, Adoble keeps posting about cool stuff you can do with Creative Cloud, and people are just rabid, completely tearing it apart,"

It is a little dystopian in a way.

Sort of a "Let them eat cake" approach to social media, if you will.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:10:22 pm

Think about this for a minute - how, in any shape form or manner, is there anyone who's responsible for responses on the Adobe Facebook page got the permission or wherewithal to make any substantive answers?

At the broadcast station I worked at, the person in charge of social media was a step above an intern, and knew just enough about social media to create a blog post or a boilerplate reply. You're not going to have the CEO, or the VP of Marketing riding herd on the Facebook page - therefore, no substantive responses...that's just my take on it. The social media people (and this is not meant as an insult to anyone) are generally low in the pecking order at a major corporation.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:20:34 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "...At the broadcast station I worked at, the person in charge of social media was a step above an intern, and knew just enough about social media to create a blog post or a boilerplate reply. You're not going to have the CEO, or the VP of Marketing riding herd on the Facebook page - therefore, no substantive responses..."

...and this is PRECISELY the danger of using social media as an advertising medium, Joe. The same situation you describe took place at my former station.
Social media isn't one-way as advertising is, it's a conversation, and you have to be prepared to engage in that conversation.

Failure to treat social media as a conversation is done at your peril. Many managers are oblivious to that simple truth.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:28:17 pm

I was agreeing with you Dave. Social Media is seen as an add-on which can be thrown out there, and mini-managed, when there should be a path to management to get the answers and replies to the posters. It's mostly been a "me too" thing for lots of companies.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:40:22 pm

Yup, apparently we're preaching to the choir. In this case, it's each other!

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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David Lawrence
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 4:04:04 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Social media isn't one-way as advertising is, it's a conversation, and you have to be prepared to engage in that conversation. "

Bingo. And this isn't a new idea by any stretch. Adobe needs to get onboard the Cluetrain.

http://www.cluetrain.com

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 7:10:43 pm

Great link David. http://www.cluetrain.com/

Very apropos.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:26:09 pm

I don't think the people in charge of the Facebook page should reply necessarily, but using Facebook as a one way advertising billboard is like hanging your political campaign posters in your opponent's home town, low enough for people to draw/spray paint on them.

It ends up being a pretty uncontrollable message...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 3:37:49 pm

[Tim Kolb] "...using Facebook as a one way advertising billboard is like hanging your political campaign posters in your opponent's home town, low enough for people to draw/spray paint on them."

Absolutely right. And the solution to your analogy is obvious: don't do it in the first place.

Remember the old Sesame Street "What Happens Next" bits? You see the picture of a jar of peanut butter... you see a loaf of bread... you see Mom smiling, with a plate and a butter knife at the ready... what happens next?

Someone in an Adobe corner office needs to turn on public television at 4PM, I think.....

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 6:28:57 pm

I agree with everyone that they shouldn't have done it in the first place, and also that whoever is setting up the facebook page doesn't have much to respond to the comments, BUT, I think it goes a bit deeper though, haven't we seen sort of like the same behavior with Adobe reps in the Cow as well? We've been talking about problems and sometimes they just leave a comment highlighting the positives, in that regard I admire their positive attitude, it truly is remarkable, but it also seems like they're following a script.
My take on this is that the turn-a-blind-eye attitude we're seeing is not a disconnection between employees and higher-ups, but rather a more coordinated move than it looks like.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 6:38:11 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "My take on this is that the turn-a-blind-eye attitude we're seeing is not a disconnection between employees and higher-ups, but rather a more coordinated move than it looks like."

Perhaps you're right; you certainly have sufficient evidence of that from other places than a Facebook page.

But to the world at large, it's social marketing executed by the feeble-minded.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 6:45:33 pm

Gustavo,

What exactly would you have an Adobe employee say? Their job is to work for the company and advocate for the company's products. They can't change anything connected to this decision. All they can do is make sure people have their facts straight.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 7:02:54 pm

[Tim Kolb] "What exactly would you have an Adobe employee say? Their job is to work for the company and advocate for the company's products. They can't change anything connected to this decision. All they can do is make sure people have their facts straight."

I wasn't referring as an employee's point of view, but rather a company response to thousands of complaints with something that doesn't look like an explanation for toddlers.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 7:15:33 pm

I get that this arrangement isn't sitting well with everyone...it's a big change.

However, you can't imply that Adobe is somehow oblivious to the complaints just because they haven't come back and said they'll now abandon a decision that they've obviously been planning for a long time. I doubt they're seeing anything in the way of feedback of any kind that they did not expect to see.

Adobe didn't make this decision lightly...I'm sure they won't reverse it at the first sign of customer objection to the change...petitions, YouTube videos, whatever...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 7:24:05 pm

[Tim Kolb] "Adobe didn't make this decision lightly...I'm sure they won't reverse it at the first sign of customer objection to the change..."

...which in the context of this thread leaves us with that Facebook page that does more harm to Adobe than good. It was a profoundly bad idea to put it up if they were never going to use social media as intended.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 7:36:17 pm

Yes, I would agree that if engaging people in conversation wasn't the goal, Facebook is a weird spot to just disseminate information about a change like this.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 8:00:35 pm

[Tim Kolb] "Adobe didn't make this decision lightly...I'm sure they won't reverse it at the first sign of customer objection to the change...petitions, YouTube videos, whatever..."

I agree.

In fact, Adobe's position in all this is that complainers will love Creative Cloud once they try it.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/11/adobe-creative-cloud-interview/

If there's going to be a change it'll be in a year or two I think, depending on how it all turns out.

Regardless of Adobe's position though, once trust is damaged, it's very hard to restore it.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 8:04:10 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "...once trust is damaged, it's very hard to restore it."

Amen, brother.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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David Lawrence
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 8:28:54 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "In fact, Adobe's position in all this is that complainers will love Creative Cloud once they try it."

I've seen that and I'd love to get ahold of whatever they're smoking.

They go out of the way to let everyone know that you *don't* need an always-on internet connection to take full advantage of the Creative Cloud. See items 1 and 2:

http://terrywhite.com/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud/

Oh, so the only difference between Creative Cloud and a regular perpetual download is with Creative Cloud, the software checks in with Adobe every month to make sure I've paid the rent. And when I stop paying, the software stops working.

Yeah, that really sounds like something I'll love.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 8:31:14 pm

Yes, but I think there is more than one area of 'trust' implied here...

Most people seem to be saying that Adobe will certainly raise prices and stop innovating...if that doesn't happen and Adobe comes through on their promises, that bit of mistrust should fade away.

For those who won't trust Adobe in any case where they don't re-issue perpetual licenses...I'm guessing Adobe knows this arrangement won't be a fit for everybody, just like particular software itself isn't right for everybody.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 15, 2013 at 9:24:17 pm

Yes and that will leave millions of customers hanging.

Ricardo


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 2:43:24 am

[Ricardo Marty] "Yes and that will leave millions of customers hanging."

It's been mentioned many times...when a company makes this kind of sweeping change, they know they won't get 100% customer retention.

That's not being crass or sarcastic, or meant to belittle you in any way...it's just the way this kind of thing typically goes.

I have no doubt that Adobe thinks they'll hang on to all their current customers any more than Apple did when FCPX hit the stage...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 2:50:59 pm

[Tim Kolb] "I have no doubt that Adobe thinks they'll hang on to all their current customers any more than Apple did when FCPX hit the stage.."

Well, the problem is that by leaving an unmanaged facebook page, Adobe gives the impression that nobody is going to be retained (at least to those going to that page). Looking at the angry posts and boiler plate responses it gives the impression the entire Adobe customer base is hopping mad about the cloud. I know this isn't true, but still it is a major screw up by Adobe.

Initial impressions stick. There is still a large impression among many that FCPX isn't for professionals despite over two years of added functionality. A lot of this is due to the fallout from the disastrous PR following its initial release.

Adobe has to tread carefully here. Loud FUD tends to stick in people's minds, sometimes even after initial concerns are addressed.

The way they are running their facebook page only adds to the FUD. Like it or not, Facebook (and all social media) is a force in the modern world, and one underestimates its impact at their own peril.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 5:53:03 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "Well, the problem is that by leaving an unmanaged facebook page, Adobe gives the impression that nobody is going to be retained (at least to those going to that page)."

Hmmm... What would the buzz be if that feedback was suppressed?

I think Adobe doesn't really have a lot of options in the eyes of those who have decided this was a stupid/greedy/evil/whatever move...

If they went and actually just put it all back the way it was, the mojo that was lost wouldn't return...and they would look like they were non-committal on it.

If they respond to very emotional criticism with facts, they're not paying attention, or are pretending the issues don't exist.

If they don't respond to criticism or suppress it, they aren't managing their message very well...

If they do control or suppress the negative feedback...then they're hiding something...

When they make the big announcement, they're candy-coating some pill they want customers to swallow...

When they aren't making continuous announcements affirming that the decision in the previous announcement has proven to be successful in 5 business days, it must mean things are going badly.

I'm pretty sure that for the few who are really on the fence, Adobe won't stop communicating, but for those who are convinced that because this new system is not right for them, that the company is somehow intentionally sabotaging their business or career, I don't know what Adobe could do to actually mend that situation...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 6:07:50 pm

[Tim Kolb] "Hmmm... What would the buzz be if that feedback was suppressed?"

It is not a matter of suppression. It is a misunderstanding of social media. When you post something to Facebook there is an implicit acknowledgement of dialogue. That is the very nature of social media.

By not engaging in dialogue it becomes a one-way street. When that traffic is almost strictly negative and your only interaction is boilerplate that doesn't address the issues, it gives the impression you don't have real answers.

If Adobe wasn't willing to play the game, they should never have entered the arena. As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I have a feeling the decision to put up a the page was some marketing afterthought with no real understanding of how Facebook works and the pitfall inherent.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 6:24:40 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "When you post something to Facebook there is an implicit acknowledgement of dialogue"

This is true...and I did comment a bit up the line on it...not sure what Adobe can do from this point on it though...some comments are pretty venomous. It's tough to respond to some of that stuff.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 6:46:35 pm

[Tim Kolb] "This is true...and I did comment a bit up the line on it...not sure what Adobe can do from this point on it though...some comments are pretty venomous. It's tough to respond to some of that stuff."

Actually at this point, you are probably right. The horse is already out of the barn and no matter what Adobe does it is going to look wrong.

I guess they can take solace in the fact they are not the first by a long shot to be scorched on the Facebook altar. I mean did any of us really know what we were signing on for when we embraced this social media thingy?


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 6:51:51 pm

Not responding is a way of responding. There response doesnt sound good.

Ricardo


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Creative Cloud Facebook page
on May 16, 2013 at 7:10:32 pm

I actually feel sorry for the low-tiered Adobe employee that got stuck with this task. Talk about a lose-lose job. If she gives honest answers, she'll draw heat from the Adobe politburo. If she doesn't respond or just gives adobe-vetted responses and keeps posting approved advertising propaganda, she'll still probably draw heat for "mismanaging" the site because of all the negative comments. I think her name is Rachel. And she has probably had one of the worst weeks of her life


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