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Gabe Strong
Another article....
on Jun 11, 2015 at 10:03:39 pm

Here is another article on the trend towards 'Software as a subscription'.
Reading through the comments is interesting as well.

http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/flink/610186

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Another article....
on Jun 11, 2015 at 11:09:58 pm

The comments are really interesting and are reflecting, what I can hear from my colleagues & business partners.
Most users don´t want it.
Companies do.


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David Mathis
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 12:28:44 am

So far Blackmagic has not indicated going this route, which is good. Waiting for the new version of Resolve to come out, thinking of using it more and might leave FCP X behind.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 2:26:00 am

[Rainer Schubert] "The comments are really interesting and are reflecting, what I can hear from my colleagues & business partners.
Most users don´t want it. "


The comments also reveal why SaaS is happening. Piracy, sporadic user upgrades, driving down of prices, etc,. While not going subscription only (at least not yet), I've seen a number of smaller plugin makers offer subscription options in the past year or so. If you have to sell software to keep the lights on it's becoming a rougher and rougher world out there.


[David Mathis] "So far Blackmagic has not indicated going this route, which is good."

Blackmagic ties you to their hardware so they, like Apple, have no compelling reason to go subscription. They do have a compelling reason to offer dirt cheap software though which leads to a driving down of prices which leads, in part, to software companies exploring subscription options.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 3:09:21 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "If you have to sell software"

From this point of view, may be, you are right.
But I´m the Advocate of my own, not of Adobe.
Yes, they have a mature collection of Applications and it´s very hard to bring in really satisfying advantages into the most of them.
That kind, users are willing to pay for (...not that kind, that blows up the Apps for nothing,).
Many of the other big Software houses have seen the trend to bind customers by cloud- and additional services (like shops etc.) very early.
Adobe missed that a long time. Is trying to catch up.
But I also can´t see, that there are efforts to make their profile customer-friendly and perfect (which could be an other way to make their products more satisfying).
Service is a horror. Help-System don´t need to be discussed. And all the different applications, they bought were never made real "familiar".
Layers are different in all Apps (InDesign/PS/AI). Path-Hadles same problem. Etc.
That they now throw out a lot off mobile Apps is nice, but seems a bit headless.
That are nice gimmicks, but something different from professional software.
Its another (may be additional) target group.
That they cut the "BUY" philosophy completely is the biggest mistake in my eyes (Where was the necessity? Most professionals I know, who are not willing to subscribe, would have paid a lot more than the former prices. Including me.)
If they wouldn´t - the debate would be over a long time.
In my eyes, Subscription ONLY is a indicator for companies, who are in trouble to deliver additional advantages, people want pay for.
Adobe has turned completely and much more than they should have.
They were a real serious software house, a time ago. Trying to create, buy and deliver perfect solutions for their customer.
And now they have (may be a necessary) philosophy like "making the most out of what we have".
If they would not have such big success with their marketing cloud (and buying all existing Apps like devil) - I bet they wouldn´t have cut the Choice strategy.
As you see, I´m more a Software-User than a seller.
But, yes, may be, from their point of (business-) view, there is no other or better way.
For me there are.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 5:17:20 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "From this point of view, may be, you are right.
But I´m the Advocate of my own, not of Adobe. "


I'm not an advocate of Adobe either, but people keep asking "Why? Why? Why?" and if you look at the changes in the software market as a whole you can start to see why. I don't think it's a coincidence that subscription, ad supported, and freemium business models for software has gone up at the same time as the perceived value of software in the eyes of consumers has gone down. For example, MS's new direction with Windows 10 is a direct response to the fact that Apple has spent years conditioning consumers that operating systems should be free.

Even with prices as low as $0.99 people still pirate iOS apps so more and more companies just give the app away for free yet either place ads in them or charge for premium features. If you ask gamers about the "Freemium" business model almost all of them will say how horrible it is, yet it's growing in popularity because, as a whole, customers aren't willing to pay a price that would actually make the software profitable. It's like when people complain that there is only crap on TV yet the primary reason there is crap on TV is because a whole lot of people watch it.

Streaming music services like Spotify are another example. Customers are flocking to them because they are so inexpensive, yet they barely pay the artists anything so their long term viability is incredibly suspect. If consumers are conditioned to expect an unlimited selection of music for $9.99/mo, which is unsustainable low for musicians, how do you reverse that course?

It's another race to the bottom that will hurt everyone (consumers included) in the long run but no one seems to mind because right now everything is so inexpensive.

Maybe Adobe made a mistake going subscription only a few years ago. Maybe they were ahead of the curve and a few years down the line the companies that have a hybrid approach now will go subscription-only. Time will tell.


[Rainer Schubert] "In my eyes, Subscription ONLY is a indicator for companies, who are in trouble to deliver additional advantages, people want pay for. "

I don't see how anyone could compare CS6 to CC2015 and think that Adobe is just coasting by.


[Rainer Schubert] "Most professionals I know, who are not willing to subscribe, would have paid a lot more than the former prices. Including me.) "
Different folks in different places. In Los Angeles I've seen a lot more use of PPro in the past few months. If I had to venture a guess I'd say many of the people/facilities that are finally switching off of FCP7 are going to PPro.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Another article....
on Jun 13, 2015 at 11:19:31 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Adobe is just coasting by"

No, not completely. The video Apps got nice additional features since CS.
But if I have a look on PS, Ind or AI, I can´t see any real amazing feature I would like to have.
And if - the people who want these features have to buy the whole package now. Regardless if they are Print- or Video-Designers.
What I want to say is, most of the Apps are that mature, that lots of users can live even with PS2, and it´s difficult to create that rocking new sensations, that you can move them to spend money. It´s like with MS office. I would say, there is no fundamental change since Office 2003 (which I use more likely than any of it´s following versions). Some of the "new features" (like the ribbon) are the opposite of "user-friendlly". Created to present something "New". Same with PS: 3D, 3D-Printing and so on are blowing the apps up. Why not a special App for that, than oversizing a (nearby) perfect App?
So there is a point, where an App gets that useful and mature, that it´s hard to get people to pay for "little advantages". I don´t want to read "New Color of GUI" as one of the update-advantages, when it´s a change from light-gray to dark-grey (as it was with PS). And that´s obviously the point when companies go on "subscription only". Clearly right. From their point of view.

[Andrew Kimery] "a lot more use of PPro in the past few months"

Video is a special aera. But I know lots of print-designers who are back on quarkxpress or experience with alternatives for AI, PS and so on.
Same with the Web-tools.

[Andrew Kimery] "Time will tell"


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David Mathis
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 10:53:16 pm

I agree with that statement. I would not mind buying hardware from Blackmagic Design, prices are for most part reasonable and excellent support. In the Adobe were to sell their software with a one year mandatory subscription to cloud based services (not software), I would gladly join. When forced into a pay your rent or forget about it scenario, I have a slight problem with that. I can understand why Adobe chose this business model but cannot agree with in its entirety. Cloud based service for storage plus buyout option would be a win situation for all. Just my very bold and honest opinion. Feel free to disagree.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 11:29:51 pm

[David Mathis] "Feel free to disagree."

Since the get go I've always wanted more services, more price tiers (like the old CS packages) and a buyout option from Adobe. My signing up for Adobe CC is a sign of people paying me to use Adobe CC, not a sign that I think CC is above reproach.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Another article....
on Jun 13, 2015 at 11:22:54 am

[David Mathis] "Cloud based service for storage plus buyout option would be a win situation for all. Just my very bold and honest opinion."

Not only yours.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 10:19:43 am

Hey Gabe,

[Gabe Strong] "Here is another article on the trend towards 'Software as a subscription'.
Reading through the comments is interesting as well.

http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/flink/610186"


I think that it would be fair to say that the article comes across as a hatchet job, where as the comments brings some interesting flavor to it - I didn't have time to read all the comments as most seems to be anti or pro subscription.

What the article fails to deal with is the added services and team-work tools that companies like Adobe have added to their offering, and hopefully Avid will also improve with their entrance into the cloud.

When discussing the CC cloud many seems to ignore the "Assets" & "Community" menus in the Creative Cloud manager, not forgetting the whole workflow of integrated tools from Story CC to final mastering and distribution in Media Encoder. In the next version of CC we will see the introduction of "Project Candy" which combine the use of smart phones by sending color grading information to the production work station.

So if it is just a question of comparing prices, then the article does the job. But if we are discussing why SaaS is the future, then one need to look at the tools that goes into a fluid working environment - rather than the old "buy and forget" permanent license model.
(Buy and forget as in that you don't have to spend more money, but won't get any upgrades either)

Maybe I just haven't found them, but I would like to see more independent articles on the advantages of using Cloud for creative media production in environments where one is daily dealing with large (video) files and how a new workflow is shaping up where the client never have to come to the studio - as in that I can work from home and just "email" the client copies for review.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Gabe Strong
Re: Another article....
on Jun 13, 2015 at 7:27:40 am
Last Edited By Gabe Strong on Jun 13, 2015 at 7:31:11 am

Mads,

I think it's fair to say the author had an opinion on the SaaS model. And I do as well,
but I was not trying to bring that into the discussion as my opinion is well known and
not really the point. I just thought it was interesting to see continued discussion about
this future....from both points of view.

As for the added cloud services you tout from Adobe.....I dunno. They seem pretty weak to
me. Maybe others are getting more benefit from them than what I see. It probably depends
on a lot of things (for example, anything 'cloud' related means jack to me when my internet speed is
slower than molasses). Quite possible I am missing something as am not a 'power user'.
I only use CC when I am working with 2 of my clients that I train on CC (they are communications divisions
of corporations and they both subscribe.)
And I already work from home and 'email' the client copies for review......all without the use of CC.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Another article....
on Jun 13, 2015 at 11:00:57 am

Hey Gabe,

[Gabe Strong] "I think it's fair to say the author had an opinion on the SaaS model."

Yes, and I am not discounting that. But I do think that the discussion needs to move on from that - after-all, subscription to a product, service, content, software is not new. SaaS is just a fancy new name for something old.

[Gabe Strong] "As for the added cloud services you tout from Adobe.....I dunno. They seem pretty weak to
me."


I agree that "They seem pretty weak". But I think that this could be more of an educational / marketing issue with Adobe not getting the depth of the tools across to the end user, rather than the tools being at fault. Particularly if the user is settled in to their old way of using a specific (type of) software, it is difficult to learn them new tricks - I am one of those guilty of falling back into my old ways of doing things, as I know that it works, rather than learning new ways.

Monday I was reminded of just such thing in an interesting chance meeting with a print designer who uses Adobe tools to create adverts, and get comments from clients on changes they want to make. Didn't Adobe use to have such tool for clients adding markers in videos and adding comments? And is anyone using that tool?

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Gabe Strong
Re: Another article....
on Jun 15, 2015 at 10:11:54 am
Last Edited By Gabe Strong on Jun 15, 2015 at 10:13:21 am

Mads,

Yeah, I was just agreeing with you that the author
of the article had a bias. His is just one opinion
among many. Some like it, some don't. I was just
interested in 'why' people do or don't like CC.

As for cloud services, Adobe very well may keep working
on them and come up with something cool. But with video
codecs getting 'fatter' (ProRes and Raw are now taking over
from XDcam HD and AVCHD and even 4k is taking hold),
much of the world does not have internet speeds that can cope
with sending bigger and bigger files to the 'Cloud'. My 0.5 meg
upload speed certainly can't. The cloud services have to go along
with good broadband for it to actually benefit users.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Another article....
on Jun 15, 2015 at 10:45:26 am

Hey Gabe,

[Gabe Strong] "But with video
codecs getting 'fatter' (ProRes and Raw are now taking over
from XDcam HD and AVCHD and even 4k is taking hold),
much of the world does not have internet speeds that can cope
with sending bigger and bigger files to the 'Cloud'. My 0.5 meg
upload speed certainly can't. The cloud services have to go along
with good broadband for it to actually benefit users."


That is so true for video!

However, if there was a fire-proof system for encoding and sending proxies with meta-data, then then that would be a huge help for work-flows involving long distance collaboration with third parties such as freelancers, studios etc.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 2:12:57 pm

"Many Adobe applications dominate their particular segment of the market. It seems they are wielding this power to move to a subscription-only model and take their customer base with them."

As stated so many times on this forum. But maybe not forever? Very much looking forward to the next few years to see how long they get away with it. We shall see.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Another article....
on Jun 12, 2015 at 3:26:31 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Jun 12, 2015 at 3:30:01 pm

I don´t think, that they will hold their Creative Monopoly over the next couple of years.
They are still concentrating on new fields with their Marketing cloud - which makes more and more money
(and without that, Adobes numbers/income would be a much bigger disaster).
All these efforts like the cloud services and mobile Apps are a bit headless in my eyes.
May be - after all - their business decision was a motivation for competition.
Three years of "Ending soon…" discounts are telling something different than "users like it".


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