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Dave LaRonde
Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 5:27:54 pm

Adobe's mulling over a dumbed-down version of After Effects to work on tablets and smart phones:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1859497

I can only ask, "Why?"

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 5:58:36 pm

C'mon Dave! Get with the future! Wouldn't you want to create intricate graphics on a device that let's you draw with your fingers? Just think back to the wondrous things you were able to create with fingerpaints way back when!

If you like drawing with a mouse, you'll love drawing with your fingers. While drawing with the mouse is akin to drawing with a potato, you'll find drawing with your fingers much like drawing with a radish. A big improvement! And editing with your fingers? On a tablet or phone? Hoo-ha!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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David Mathis
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 6:18:38 pm

Well there is iMovie for editing on phone or tablet. Just waiting for Motion or Final Cut Pro X to be added to that list. Who knows, Resolve could be use to grade a feature on the iPad, stranger things have happened.

At a nice steakhouse:

Honey, what are you doing?
Dear, at the moment creating a super duper awesome title sequence for Martians Taking Over The Wild West, that is all.
Honey, that is nice to know. I do hope you remember this is our anniversary dinner.
Husband now has the egg on face look.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 6:59:07 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "I can only ask, "Why?""

Why do people make mobile apps for gaming, image capture, word processing, photo manipulation, video editing, drawing, VPN/remote computing, etc.,.?


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 9:39:54 pm

Yeah - why use a real toaster to toast your bread, when you could do it with a lighter...?

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 9:50:51 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Yeah - why use a real toaster to toast your bread, when you could do it with a lighter...?"

Because your toaster is at home but you are in the middle of the park with a piece of bread, a lighter and in the mood for toast?

I can't be the only person in this thread that's used a productivity/business app on a mobile device before.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 10:33:22 pm

Apples and oranges.

Ponder this: which AE features do you eliminate to get it to work on a tablet, or worse yet, a phone?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 11:13:41 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Apples and oranges."

Exactly! Mobile apps aren't replacements of desktops apps. They are either companion apps or very 'lite' versions of their desktop brethren so comparing them is apples to oranges.

What might be useful in a mobile AE app? Simple animation and compositing.

Take the Iograher ( http://www.iographer.com/ ) demographic, for example. If I'm doing my shooting, editing, and uploading from an iPad wouldn't being able to some simple animations and green screen comp add production value to my work? Or take it a step further and roll Media Silo or Pond5 into the mix. If the mobile AE version can read AE project files then people could download pre-made GFX from Media Silo or Pond5, make some basic changes (like text on a low third), and used them in the field.

Or maybe someone can just use some primitives to make a fun little animation while they sit on the beach on vacation.


Given this post by Todd about them seeing if a 'mobile AE' is possible plus the announcements at NAB (project Candy, faster AE, better color grading inside PPro, etc.,) it seems like Adobe is listening to customers, improving its existing products and thinking of new products. I know how disappointed some of you must be that your doom and gloom predictions haven't come to pass. ;)


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 2, 2015 at 11:40:50 pm

Dave, I think that this post somewhat misrepresents what I said on the other forum.

All that I said is that we're "currently looking into how to make simple animations and do simple compositing on tablets and smartphone". Nothing about dumbing down After Effects.

Right now, we have a couple of folks exploring what animation tasks might work well on mobile devices to feed into After Effects and other applications. We'll see where that exploration leads us.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects product manager and curmudgeon
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 5:45:22 am

Don't forget the Speedgrade To Go App - essential for critical color grading on the go...

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 5:20:29 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Jun 3, 2015 at 5:35:23 pm

[Todd Kopriva]: “…Dave, I think that this post somewhat misrepresents what I said on the other forum….”

Maybe the language is a lot more blunt than you'd prefer to read, but I don't think it's all THAT inaccurate.

Here's an analogy: FCPX is to iMovie what AE would be to.... oh, let's call it "AE Mobile".

You can edit using iMovie on a tablet, but not FCPX. You'd be able to use the currently-vaporware AE Mobile on a tablet, but not AE.

iMovie has a vastly-truncated set of capabilities compared to FCPX. I'd expect AE Mobile -- still in the blue-sky, what-if stage, I hasten to add -- would need a similarly pared-down set of features compared to AE.

I don't think it's a stretch to call iMovie a dumbed-down version of FCPX. So I don't see how it's too far off the mark to call a speculated AE Mobile a dumbed-down version of AE.

Sure, iMovie came before FCPX, but that's trivial. The key here is the features and capabilities that get left behind. That would be the REALLY tough task for the AE team, I think.

Case in point: just today I got a monster-huge (for me) HD monitor installed at my edit station; it'll be functional tomorrow. Previously, my best view of Keylight chroma keys was the AE Comp window. I'm sure I'll cringe looking at the edges of some of my more challenging keys when I now see earlier work. So would Keylight make the cut and proceed onto an AE Mobile app? On a tablet? On a phone? I sort of doubt it, yet others would insist on having it. A tough choice.

Another big hurdle: AE sucks up RAM like nobody's business, yet tablets and phones don't exactly have huge amounts of memory.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 7:39:02 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Another big hurdle: AE sucks up RAM like nobody's business, yet tablets and phones don't exactly have huge amounts of memory."

Me think that could possibly be the biggest barrier for AE running on tablets and mobile devices. But isn't this what the cloud is for?

I.e. you use the media encoder to make a handful of proxies for the cloud storage that can be used anywhere, anytime and on any device?
Granted, it won't give you the full and final thing - but it will allow you to work remotely with dragging the work-station, air-con and associated storage around on your shoulder.

After all, we used to do all our off-lines on NLE (some on VHS or U-Matic) before sending the tapes off to the tape online suite. So there is no reason for why an ecosystem of mobile apps could not fit in and improve today's workflow?
Although, as we now from the early days of NLE, it won't take long for money-saving producer to decide to use mobile apps only for their post production.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Steve Connor
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 5:58:01 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "Right now, we have a couple of folks exploring what animation tasks might work well on mobile devices to feed into After Effects and other applications. We'll see where that exploration leads us."

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, mobile versions of Apps always seem to have problems with transitioning projects to the full version.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 6:21:29 pm

Well, to my mind it's more of a question if Adobe even decides to pursue it at all.

10 years ago, HD was the big new thing. 6 years ago 2K was the big new thing. 2 years ago 4K was the big new thing. In two years, what will be the big new thing?

And you want to WHAT with footage of this size in AE? On a tablet? On a PHONE?

If the app ever sees the light of day, I don't see how it could be considered anything but a toy.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 7:42:29 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "
10 years ago, HD was the big new thing. 6 years ago 2K was the big new thing. 2 years ago 4K was the big new thing. In two years, what will be the big new thing?"


Actually, HD (digital) was 15 years ago (NAB 2000).
Not to forget stereoscopic about the same time as 2K.
8K will be next (NHK in Brazil 2016). There are noise in the supplier circuit to suggest that 4K/UHD won't be around for long enough...

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 9:33:33 pm

....which illustrates my point. Who on earth would want to do any kind of serious effects work on 8K footage using a tablet or phone? What would one gain by trying it?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 9:55:11 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "....which illustrates my point. Who on earth would want to do any kind of serious effects work on 8K footage using a tablet or phone? What would one gain by trying it?"

Who wants to do serious work of any kind on a mobile device? Trying to shoehorn desktop-type work onto a mobile device isn't the point. More and more people own tablets and are integrating them into their workflows. Why *shouldn't* Adobe look into what is and isn't possible? Maybe something worthwhile is possible right now, maybe nothing worthwhile is possible right now, but you don't know unless you try. Isn't that the whole point of the R&D process?


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Chris Pettit
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 4, 2015 at 2:36:28 am

[Dave LaRonde] "
If the app ever sees the light of day, I don't see how it could be considered anything but a toy."


I can think of a dozen things more important to AE's future (for serious users anyway) other than having it work on a screen smaller than a breadbox. For most long time users this is a waste of time.

How about advancing the shape tools for example? How about some kind of a mo-graph capability regarding those shapes? Look at what Dlew created for the Oblivion movie almost entirely with C4D because there are no such tools inside AE:



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Shawn Miller
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 5, 2015 at 6:02:22 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Look at what Dlew created for the Oblivion movie almost entirely with C4D because there are no such tools inside AE:"

To be fair, C4D's MoGraph module is best in class... I don't think there is a dedicated 3D motion graphics plugin or module that can match it for power, performance or features. Though, I do find it strange that AE still doesn't have built in replicators (it's bizarre, IMO). I'm curious to see what Adobe is cooking up for mobile motion graphics and compositing, but I would like to see replicators or an Octane like preview/playback engine more. :-)

Shawn



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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 3, 2015 at 8:50:32 am

Guessing that for an FX supervisor, that using an iPad on a distant outdoor location for pre-comping etc, is much more attractive than dragging a full kit up a mountainside. In particularly if she/he can throw the comps directly to a colleague in the production studio.

As the tablets are overtaking lap-top sales. And companies like Microsoft is rushing to make all of their software "tablet firendly", then why not.

Although, I prefer my dark room of a dungeon. And as some says, the attraction to the family of seeing daddy working 24 hours, rather than the 12+, I would not be allowed to carry it around with me... :-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 9, 2015 at 1:21:09 am

there are a whole bunch of task specific elements of AE I could imagine broken out into the ipad. Are people mad?

If you had a simple staging AE subset? where you could perform vector paint actions to a played audio track? that gets packaged out as a ref aep?
Not everyone has a cintiq - plenty of us have an ipad - i bought a stylus and everything.
Did totally folded the shop on CC - but hosing adobe for trying to validate the cloud concept isn't fair football. I don't know what they're about with it - but AE is a house with a billion rooms.
Having an applicable subset maybe record environment available CC linked from the ipad - I mean are you insane?

Breaking out parts of AE like that is molasses honey dew stuff. We've never had anything like it. I bought the stylus but I find I don't paint and mess with photos as much as I might.
Tell people they can continuously noodle with transferrable aspects of AE applicable on the iPad -
do you have any notion how many AE heads would go clean off their rocker.

AE is large enough now that it might as well be the Taj Mahal - if adobe actually built a three to four room task specific studio bungalow on the ipad a lot of AE heads would eat that meal like magical bacon pancakes and scrambled eggs.

It would be the first time on record that elements of AE didn't have to live only in AE. You know - where you prop the ipad up in bed and angrily smear and record paint in hard light mode to a track playing synced to the title animation mov sequence playing frame accurate on your ipad.

that sort of thing. Idealised scenario aside - you'd half like the idea of the iPad as closed space AE sound and motion performance. It's neither three foot wide nor does it sit on a desk.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 9, 2015 at 4:50:15 pm

Yeah, well, what if for some technical reason Adobe can't implement the painting you so greatly covet? Kinda shoots it in the butt for you, eh?

That's the problem for Adobe -- what do you choose to keep, and what do you choose to omit? Cripes, it's an app on a tablet -- you can't have everything.


.....and if put to a vote by users, everyone is going to vote differently, campaigning for their favored feature. What a mess.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 9, 2015 at 5:27:59 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "That's the problem for Adobe -- what do you choose to keep, and what do you choose to omit? Cripes, it's an app on a tablet -- you can't have everything.
"


You can't, yet Apple just announced that there have been over 100 billion app downloads from their App Store alone. Obviously there is market for mobile apps that trade features for convenience, and I'd honestly wonder about any large company that isn't at least investigating how a mobile app might be useful to their customers.


[Dave LaRonde] ".....and if put to a vote by users, everyone is going to vote differently, campaigning for their favored feature. What a mess."

That basically describes every situation involving more than one person since the beginning of time. ;)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 9, 2015 at 5:54:18 pm

An app from the app store doesn't hold a candle to AE in terms of complexity and features, so you have to ask yourself how hamstrung would this blue-sky AE Mobile actually be?

And because of the wealth of features in AE -- keyframing, expressions, scripts, 3D, shapes, text, masking, mattes, painting, keying and noise -- to name a few -- there could conceivably be multiple AE Mobile apps to placate users.

But you wouldn't be able to get past the big hurdle in my mind: adequate resolution on a tablet to undertake serious effects work.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 9, 2015 at 7:01:36 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "An app from the app store doesn't hold a candle to AE in terms of complexity and features, so you have to ask yourself how hamstrung would this blue-sky AE Mobile actually be?"

No mobile app holds a candle to its full blown, desktop counterpart. Every app (even email and word processing) is hamstrung compared to doing the same tasks on a desktop or laptop. But that's beside the point because replacing the desktop app is not the goal.

It's like saying bicycles are dumb because they can't hold as much as delivery trucks.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 10, 2015 at 8:41:48 pm

no the hell with all that - I'm on the hamster CC wheel. Even if I hadn't got boxed in last year - I'd be boxed in by now. Long since really.

That said - given they're visibly breaking their balls making it valid and real as an added benefit ecosystem - I bloody well do like the idea of them experimenting with aspects of AE on the ipad.

You really have to see some of the stuff - the PS brush designer on iOS is. to. die. for. It really is Dave - it's a better specific incarnation of brush generation than ever existed on OSX. I remember noodling with brush style back in PS 4 and that - it was awkward as hell - as a broken out tool using what it has with the camera for texture record and the touch interface it's a massively massively better new experience. I still play with it out of the pleasure of its effectiveness. Lightroom on the ipad is rock solid photo flagging and first cc as well.

but the thing is I'm not a PS guy to that extent anymore. But I'm still plenty an AE guy. If paint or other live record scenarios don't work - fine - but you'd think some stuff might.

trying to describe it as some dumbing down of AE into iOS misses the mark by a mile - and it's not like they're announcing a thing. But I'm still curious what aspects of AE could be broken out like they've broken out previous stuff.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Paul Neumann
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 11, 2015 at 8:39:04 pm

When's the last time Adobe did anything just because they could? The whole CC thing has opened up a ton of different development roads. There is serious reasoning and workflow functionality to all of Adobe's tablet apps. All lot of people won't need it because, say, PS or Clip on their tablet is all they need. But if you can make tablet work part of your desktop workflow then it's dang handy.

I'm sure no one is saying, "we need a tablet version" just to have a tablet version.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 12, 2015 at 9:54:06 pm

no exactly. But the PS iOS brush designer really has mad efficacy. I'm never going to be asked to make a brush - ever - professionally, but I made a bunch simply to work the process they produced. I've got crumpled paper paintbrushes and all sorts. i think it goes to the deeper thing apple are grappling with in terms of the iOS pro experience. you can have ten amazing minutes with something and you just drop it dead with a smile.

I'm not particularly holding out for some AE tool break out interpretation, I'm just curious on a basic level what they'd perceive - it mightn't be some massive thing, but that brush designer was super laser sharp.

I thought comp CC was a bit ludicrous as well. My degree was actually in design? with a print major. In the case of comp CC the finished page structure I made with those insane cross X dash line indications for text and picture bounding boxes materialised in PS on my MBP five feet away - ten seconds after finishing it. You'd have to laugh. I really did. It's an age of insane abundance where something like that being provided is almost like netflix browsing, given we started out with letraset, dark rooms and french curves?

Either way adobe are busting their balls to make professional subscription / membership to software engineering advancement a fundamentally valid decision.
But if they go like Rupert Murdoch Sky in two years and start the long march to say a 6.5 - 8.9% per annum hike spectrum we'll all be left laughing out the other sides of our faces - because then this was all a precursor to rapacious goals. That total cost will grow like an escalator with handcuffs relative to captive stagnant client billing in a competitive broad based post market. Adobe's ultimate corporate goal is to make the most money physically possible - and a subscription base with no visible competition is liable to turn the boardroom into werewolves.

Devil's advocate - given the nature of capitalism - it's hard not to see this as the precursor to that. I mostly think they're being kept honest at corporate level by the middling success they've achieved in pure profit terms so far.

that said I would love to know what they're noodling with in terms of AE and iOS. boom boom.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Get this.. Say it's live paint & recorded object moves drafted on your iPad. Or something crazier.
on Jun 13, 2015 at 10:19:57 am

Hey Aindreas,

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Either way adobe are busting their balls to make professional subscription / membership to software engineering advancement a fundamentally valid decision.
But if they go like Rupert Murdoch Sky in two years and start the long march to say a 6.5 - 8.9% per annum hike spectrum we'll all be left laughing out the other sides of our faces - because then this was all a precursor to rapacious goals."


Interesting comment about comparing Adobe to Sky. I agree that a monopoly will not serve the interest of anyone, least the end-client. However, a few years ago a new entrant got foot in the door in the UK and took on SKY's dominance in football rights, partly due to regulatory pressure and in part due to having the cash to compete.

Although I am not a great fan of BT (British Telecom) they installed themselves in TV studios near the 2012 Olympic Park with newly acquired football packages that they offered for free to their subscribers with popular presenters - they have since expanded that package, and seen growth in business to match.

As other people on this forum have already suggested, there are alternatives to Adobe - maybe not as integrated in functionality, and not with the same deep pockets for R&D and Marketing. But like FCP disrupted Avid's model, and Adobe is now disrupting FCP (+ Avid) there will always be space for another entrant to take over if the price gets to high, or the product offered is inferior in quality.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Strath Hamilton
Re: Get this.....
on Jun 16, 2015 at 5:58:45 pm

Wow

Strath Hamilton


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