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David Miller
Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 7, 2015 at 8:47:00 pm

To any Adobe reps who may be reading this forum:

So I decided to go ahead and order the desktop version of the new Adobe Acrobat Pro DC. It was set up to be an upgrade from my current Adobe Acrobat X Pro installation on my MacBook Pro.

I go through the pages where you put in your address and card information to make the order, and then hit the button to buy the product. I receive a confirmation page indicating what I purchased.....unfortunately that page is showing that I bought "1 Adobe Acrobat Pro DC (Windows,English)". I am on Macintosh...can't use the Windows version. There was no opportunity (on the pages that were displayed to me leading up to the order) to choose the platform I wanted. I figured that Adobe's system knew that I was a Mac user (from all my previous purchases). Nope.

So I check out the Adobe web page regarding orders and find a link that's supposed to allow me to set up an exchange. I click the link....nothing happens. Just see a blank page.

I find a number (855-914-2736) to call for Support on this...reach someone in Sales for Individuals named Darren....he refers me to someone else (a woman with an Indian accent) who is supposed to help me....I explain to her that my order ended up with Windows when it was supposed to be Macintosh; she immediately asks if it was a subscription and I say, no, it's a standalone desktop upgrade version. She says that she needs to transfer me to someone else and that I was supposed to "stay online". That was about 20 minutes ago. I am still waiting on hold, listening to some sort of Muzak, and no end in sight.

How do I get a refund for this? Or how do I get it switched to a Macintosh version?

Thanks for any info you can provide on how to proceed!

- David


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David Miller
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 7, 2015 at 9:21:24 pm

Update: I listened to the Muzak for another 20 minutes. No one ever came back on the line, so I hung up. I looked some more on the Adobe website but could not get the page for "exchanges" to display.

There was also an indication that I was supposed to register the product before getting an exchange, so I tried to go to the page to register the product but that isn't working either.

Is this any way to run a company? Sheesh.

Adobe needs to stop focusing on expanding and start paying attention to the basics.

At this point I think I just want to get a refund and just pretend this purchase attempt never happened.

- David


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David Miller
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 7, 2015 at 11:07:55 pm

Update 2: After previous efforts failed, I returned once again to the Adobe website to see if there was something I had missed as an option for getting some assistance. After much searching around, I came across a page that provided an opportunity to get into a chat with a rep. I tried clicking on that, and the link actually worked!

I began waiting for my turn in the queue and began to see messages saying " We are still assisting other customers, thank you for your patience. You can also try our community forums, available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. " So, I clicked on the "community forum" link and this is what I got:

---------------------------------
System Error
We're sorry but a serious error has occurred in the system.
• Status Code: 500
• Exception Type:
• Error Message:
• Request URI: /adobe_login
• Stack Trace:
◦ com.jivesoftware.community.aaa.JiveAuthenticationTranslationFilter.doFilter(JiveAuthenticationTranslationFilter.java:192)
◦ com.jivesoftware.community.aaa.DefaultPostAuthenticationSetupStrategy.setup(DefaultPostAuthenticationSetupStrategy.java:63)
◦ com.jivesoftware.adobe.aaa.AdobeSSOAuthenticationSuccessHandler.onAuthenticationSuccess(AdobeSSOAuthenticationSuccessHandler.java:34)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.authentication.AbstractAuthenticationProcessingFilter.successfulAuthentication(AbstractAuthenticationProcessingFilter.java:301)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.authentication.AbstractAuthenticationProcessingFilter.doFilter(AbstractAuthenticationProcessingFilter.java:218)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy$VirtualFilterChain.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:380)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:169)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy$VirtualFilterChain.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:380)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.context.SecurityContextPersistenceFilter.doFilter(SecurityContextPersistenceFilter.java:79)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy$VirtualFilterChain.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:380)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:163)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy$VirtualFilterChain.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:380)
◦ com.jivesoftware.community.aaa.stateless.filter.NodeFailoverTestModeFilter.doFilter(NodeFailoverTestModeFilter.java:36)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy$VirtualFilterChain.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:380)
◦ org.springframework.security.web.FilterChainProxy.doFilter(FilterChainProxy.java:169)
◦ org.springframework.web.filter.DelegatingFilterProxy.invokeDelegate(DelegatingFilterProxy.java:346)
◦ org.springframework.web.filter.DelegatingFilterProxy.doFilter(DelegatingFilterProxy.java:259)......

---------------------------------
(the code went on for another 40 or 50 lines)

So, the Community Forum wasn't working either.


After that failure, I went back to waiting on the chat queue, and ended up with a rep named Atul Shah. After explaining what happened, he took a look at my account and indicated that he would submit a cancellation of the order. However, he said it would take 5-7 business days before it would go through.

Really? In this day and age of instant communications it takes 5-7 days to do a simple cancellation of an order?

Anyway, it appears that the errant order is in the process of being cancelled. Once I can confirm that that process has been completed, I will then consider trying a purchase again. But I will need to have the ability to choose the platform so that I can get a Mac version. That option wasn't available on my first try. Anyway, it looks like I have a week or so to think about it.

This is NOT the way to do business.

Sorry for littering the forum with this. It's just very frustrating and very sad to see Adobe in this state of affairs.

- David


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David Miller
The rest of the story...
on Apr 25, 2015 at 11:00:33 pm

[David Miller] "Really? In this day and age of instant communications it takes 5-7 days to do a simple cancellation of an order?
"



As noted in the last of 3 initial posts I made back on April 7, I was told that it would take 5-7 business days to do the cancellation of the order and, presumably, get a refund done on that order. April 7 was a Tuesday, so figuring 7 business days past that, it would have meant that the cancellation and such should have gotten done by Thursday of the following week.

That didn't happen.

It took till today (4/25) before I finally had physical confirmation (i.e. I was finally able to check my credit card account online and actually see that a refund from Adobe had been posted to my account) that this had finally been taken care of. The posting was listed as having happened yesterday, 4/24, but that was not viewable till today.

18 days of waiting overall. And during that time I had to follow up a number of times with the chat area to try to keep the process going and keep it from falling into a crack somewhere.

Anyway, that's the rest of the story. FYI.

- David


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Gary Huff
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 7, 2015 at 11:31:45 pm

[David Miller] "I figured that Adobe's system knew that I was a Mac user (from all my previous purchases). Nope. "

Why would they assume what platform you wanted, even from past history? That's a dangerous assumption to make, there are many people who have switched platforms throughout computing history.

Which version did you order? Standard upgrade or Pro upgrade?


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David Miller
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 7, 2015 at 11:46:15 pm

[Gary Huff] "Which version did you order? Standard upgrade or Pro upgrade?"

I mentioned that in the first or second sentence in my original post. It was Acrobat Pro DC....meant as an upgrade from the Acrobat X Pro (technically known as Version 10.1.13) that I have already.

- David


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 8:37:53 am

Hey David,

I'm confused: Is this a delayed April's fool post, or serious?

Anyway, your description of Adobe account support is accurate. As it has been outsourced to place far, far away from Adobe, to be behind the evil mountains of "Customer Non-Support" - hopefully Adobe will one day think of moving up this essential part of their services to a reasonable professional level...

However: Their text support is normally great as you can track and copy discussions with the people you talk with. And you are not stuck listening to endless Muzak + in my experience, they actually offer solutions, rather than increased aggravation.

Secondly, a more general approach to handling call-centers: Ask for the supervisor first off, rather than agreeing to be a phone hang-on pinball in a slow-mo machine. "Darren" is not enough of a name to trace, so before moving you out of his sight, you should have asked for reference number and/or surname on the very first call.

Thirdly: as true to their other products, you should be able to download a 30 day free trial before going ahead with the purchase. At which point you could then start your paid subscription to DC. So there are nothing stopping you from trying the download again, whilst Adobe get their accounts sorted out.

Hope this helps?

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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David Miller
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 2:04:27 pm
Last Edited By David Miller on Apr 8, 2015 at 2:05:48 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "you should be able to download a 30 day free trial before going ahead with the purchase. At which point you could then start your paid subscription to DC."


The product I was trying to purchase was not a "subscription" version, it was their "desktop" version (I mentioned "desktop" in one of my earlier posts in this thread). Adobe itself makes that distinction on their own "Plans and Pricing" page....you can see their reference here:

https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/pricing/pricing.html

As can be seen, their reference to "subscription" (at default $14.99 a month) is on the left, and their reference to "desktop" (at default $499 purchase price for non-upgrade version) is on the right. If you pop-up the menu in the "desktop" area you will see a choice for "Pro upgrade, desktop software only" ....choosing that causes the upgrade price of $199 to appear. That was the one I was trying to get.

So, it was the "desktop" version with a perpetual license...not the rental or "subscription" version. I put my money where my mouth is. I will not rent software.

I may try that demo route you mentioned, but in reading through a faq area it appears that the demo would need to be uninstalled (after the 30-day trial was up) before being able to install a paid version of the software. I am concerned that the demo might have some "subscription" components to it that would be installed so I don't want to get stuck having to go through Adobe customer "support" again to get any subscription stuff straightened out should the uninstall not succeed in removing everything.

I'll have to think about that some more.

PS: You were originally the one who brought the Acrobat upgrade to my attention in a post you made some weeks ago. You were pointing out to (I think it was Rainer...or maybe it was Ricardo) that a PL version of Acrobat was available.

- David


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 6:01:36 pm

Hey David,

Yes, I was the one who originally pointed you on your road to destruction with getting a permanent license for Acrobat.

[David Miller] "So, it was the "desktop" version with a perpetual license...not the rental or "subscription" version. I put my money where my mouth is. I will not rent software."

I respect that, and think that your view is fair enough. But without sounding snarky; I am not sure why you are seeking help in a Adobe Creative Cloud forum? And as you have just a few days earlier, thrown mud in the face of quite a few helpful people, wanting to help you - there may be one or two of those that could have definitely have helped, but is instead thinking karma...

However, investigating a bit further: For some reason the "PRO" version is for Windows or Mac, whereas the "Standard" version is for Windows only. Don't know why, but if you selected the wrong option, or if Adobe have not sorted out the Mac part yet, then this may be where your problem is originating from.

On the happy side, as a CC subscriber "Acrobat DC" was offered up to me this morning in my Adobe CC Apps manager. Just waiting to finish a large pdf document before upgrading - without the hassle.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 9:03:54 pm

is this perpetual non upgradable version a new offering?

ricardo marty


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 9:56:07 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "is this perpetual non upgradable version a new offering?"

No, it is an upgrade with less functionality than the cloud version, but equally impressive new tool-set - if that makes sense? However, you can purchase the new version as a buy-out (PL).

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 10:50:57 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "No, it is an upgrade with less functionality than the cloud version, but equally impressive new tool-set - if that makes sense? However, you can purchase the new version as a buy-out (PL)."

I'm curious. I have never used the full version of Acrobat, so I'm not familiar. What is everyone's theory as to why Adobe choose to offer this as both a subscription and a PL version?


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 11:37:29 pm
Last Edited By Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Apr 8, 2015 at 11:38:18 pm

Hey Chris,

[Chris Pettit] "I'm curious. I have never used the full version of Acrobat, so I'm not familiar. What is everyone's theory as to why Adobe choose to offer this as both a subscription and a PL version?"

I would suggest several reasons, one mainly being about the client base of legal, accountants and financial institutions being a large user group of Acrobat.
Both the product Acrobat, and the client base, have a different investment cycle than that of a fast paced creative/marketing environment.

Which is why the new tools in Adobe DC, not necessarily ground breaking as other companies have for some time offered similar tools, but not under one roof. And not by a trusted provider. Some of those tools are integration into tablets with the ability to sign documents and store them securely - a must have for customer facing business that wants to eradicate paper.

As the Acrobat is a stand alone package that mainly integrate with products such as Microsoft Office and accounts software packages, then it is not difficult to offer a PL product. As opposed to the CC apps of which most are tightly integrated depending on your creative workflow.

Acrobat is a great piece of software which I use daily. Today I was helping a friend with a legal case, where printed matters had been photographed for evidence, which by one touch I converted into text that could be copied and used in Word - saving at least 1 hour of work.

But the real question is: Do you pay £453.60 for a full Acrobat Pro PL with limited or no cloud services attached, or do you take out a subscription for Adobe CC where it comes as standard in the full package?

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 8, 2015 at 11:52:09 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "I would suggest several reasons, one mainly being about the client base of legal, accountants and financial institutions being a large user group of Acrobat."

Thanks for the response Mads, was curious. I guess it leads me to where we've all been before: If its doable with Acrobat, why not creative apps? (rhetorical question)

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "But the real question is: Do you pay £453.60 for a full Acrobat Pro PL with limited or no cloud services attached, or do you take out a subscription for Adobe CC where it comes as standard in the full package?"

Good question, especially if you're not required to mortgage your work to endless subscriptions. Since PDF is an open format, it's a different equation than After Effects for example, where we are being asked to keep making payments perpetually simply to access previous work.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 12:38:50 am

Hey Chris,

[Chris Pettit] "Good question, especially if you're not required to mortgage your work to endless subscriptions. Since PDF is an open format, it's a different equation than After Effects for example, where we are being asked to keep making payments perpetually simply to access previous work."

That is your opinion, and as you know - I don't agree with it.

However, to add to previous comments, may I recommend to you one of my favorite books ever: "Only The Paranoid Survive" by Andrew Grove? 17 years on it is still in retail.
It covers the idea of the strategic inflection point. Let me take a quote from: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflectionpoint.asp
"Andy Grove, Intel's co-founder, described a strategic inflection point as "an event that changes the way we think and act." Inflection points can be a result of action taken by a company, or through actions taken by another entity, that has a direct impact on the company."

In short: If your supplier changes the way that they do business or supply you with goods, then you must do the same. In some instances the service will completely disappear. In other situations, a competitor might bring out a better product. Or your client(s) may decide to shut shop. In any case, you have a duty to watch out and plan for the Strategic Inflection Point and act accordingly.

To be blunt: Sitting on fence will not resolve your current situation. So you either have to find new tools that can do the job, or change the way that you do business with your clients - like Adobe have done with theirs. We don't have to like it, but we may have to live with it.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 2:07:46 am
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Apr 9, 2015 at 3:12:24 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "To be blunt: Sitting on fence will not resolve your current situation. So you either have to find new tools that can do the job, or change the way that you do business with your clients - like Adobe have done with theirs. We don't have to like it, but we may have to live with it."

I don't have to live with anything Adobe says or does, but I agree otherwise. I presume nobody on this forum has intentions of sitting on the fence for any longer than is required. If we were fence sitters by nature we wouldn't be self-employed. As has been predicted many times, the arduous effort to get Adobe to realize how many people it's really taking risks loosing as customers has a time limit on it. Once those customers have moved to new solutions, Adobe has lost a sizable portion of its former customers permanently. Adobe is worried about this prospect I can assure you, if they weren't, they wouldn't have left the door ajar by saying "we have nothing new to report" regarding policy adjustments instead of just declaring "we will never offer a buyout option for creative tools"

As new tools that are true alternatives become available, then this debate will be pointless and largely over. While we are not there yet, we are getting there (I hope). Personally I'm looking forward to getting feedback regarding workflows, software and hardware and future trends (that don't involve Adobe) in a matter of days at NAB 2015. That's not to say that I'm not interested in what the new big announcements are with new versions of Adobe software though (I may have to cover over my show badge while in their booth). That always figures in to everyone's calculations on whether to tolerate subscriptions or not. Personally I'm beginning to wonder if Adobe is simply too big and built on 20 year old software to be agile enough to produce the enticements long term to force the whole damn world into subscriptions willing or not. I think in the end they will loose market share in the coming years. Maybe they even know that and are prepared to accept it for the relative stability of smaller but more reliable revenue, I don't know. But bottom line, there is a real reason David Miller had this experience with Adobe's service. They need to save money - they're making less of it.

I noticed BTW that the Black Magic booth is 3 times the size of Adobe's on the floor chart (yes, cameras require more space) but it gives you a sense of who the big hitters in this market space may be as we move forward. Also as you enter the hall, unless I'm reading the chart incorrectly, the first thing you will see is Black Magic.

BTW I don't know what your business model is like, but there is no way I'm ever re-defining the way I do business with my clients simply because a single software company has redefined theirs. Adobe is clearly counting on people "living with it" but there is a large market segment moving rapidly towards alternatives by seeking new tools (Affinity for example).


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David Mathis
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 5:24:00 am

Completely agree with you Chris. While there is zero chance of me subscribing, for reasons already discussed, I am intersted in seeing what Adobe brings to the table in terms of new features and such. Also interested in what BMD has up their sleeves. A demo of Fusion on Mac OS X is pretty exciting. Sincerely hope Resolve can be used as an NLE, do love FCP X but cross platform it is not.

As far as After Effects is concerned, really do not need that much power at the moment and Motion serves me just fine. Photoshop is kind of a delima, however, but exploring other options. I do have Acorn but it lacks some capabilities for film production. I respect that. Not every program is for everyone. Some need the capabilities of what is offered in rental only, respect that as well. Where disagreement comes into play is with rental only, in its current state of affairs. I have nothing personal against Adobe or people who like the subscription model. My problem is with one side looking down on the other. I know we can disagree with respect for the other side not belittle each other. Sorry for getting on bit of a soap box there. Back to more important things.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 1:41:51 pm

[David Mathis] "As far as After Effects is concerned, really do not need that much power at the moment and Motion serves me just fine."

Understood. As I've mentioned before Motion would be a tool I might migrate back to if the machines were more capable.

Interesting to point out that Apple for the second year has no presence at NAB. Last time I was there they had one of the biggest and high impact booths in the hall. Really disappointing they are no longer there


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Bill Davis
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 3:54:55 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Apr 10, 2015 at 1:14:48 am

I understand Chris, but as has been pointed out before, Apple now has more direct customer interactions per week via the Apple Stores then they did in all the trade shows they've done. I wonder how the big trade show booth players might see things if they had extermely successful customer facing retail operations like Apple?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 3:58:27 pm

[Bill Davis] "Apple now has more direct customer interactions per week via the Apple Stores then they did in all the trade shows they've done."

Forget NAB, Apple doesn't do CES either - not surprised if they will drop Apple exhibitions too...

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 5:04:57 pm
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Apr 9, 2015 at 5:06:44 pm

[Bill Davis] "I understand Chris, but as has been pointed out before, Apple now has more direct customer interactions per week via the Apple Stores then they did in all the trade shows they've done. I wonder how the big trade show booth players might see things if they had extermely successful customer facing retail operations like Apple?"

Very good point. The only exception is that NAB is often a unique opportunity to actually interact with product developers, engineers, programmers, higher level people that you will never get at a retail store. Thats the main reason I go to NAB from time to time


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 5:27:17 pm

[Bill Davis] "I understand Chris, but as has been pointed out before, Apple now has more direct customer interactions per week via the Apple Stores then they did in all the trade shows they've done."

[Chris Pettit] "The only exception is that NAB is often a unique opportunity to actually interact with product developers, engineers, programmers, higher level people that you will never get at a retail store."

But isn't the point that Apple doesn't even have a NAB booth (and hasn't since 2008) and that in no way reflects on the whether the company is a "big hitter" or not? Apple is committed to developing FCPX/Motion/Compressor whether or not they show up at MacWorld, NAB, IBC, or (fill in your expo of choice). Whether you have a booth or not and how big it is seems a bit superfluous to me as a judgment factor for the companies market impact.

But to your original point Blackmagic has had that spot the last few years at NAB, at that size. Same for Adobe. In that sense, it's business as usual...

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 5:55:29 pm

[Ryan Holmes] "But isn't the point that Apple doesn't even have a NAB booth (and hasn't since 2008) and that in no way reflects on the whether the company is a "big hitter" or not? Apple is committed to developing FCPX/Motion/Compressor whether or not they show up at MacWorld, NAB, IBC, or (fill in your expo of choice). Whether you have a booth or not and how big it is seems a bit superfluous to me as a judgment factor for the companies market impact."

Guys, this comment was an afterthought, nothing more. Relax. I did not say nor do I believe that Apple is not a "big hitter"


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 10:20:08 am

Hey Chris,

There is really nothing new in what you are saying about your feelings on Adobe, which I respect, but don't agree with.

[Chris Pettit] "That's not to say that I'm not interested in what the new big announcements are with new versions of Adobe software though (I may have to cover over my show badge while in their booth)."

I think that is a really sad statement of affairs. Why wouldn't you be proud of who you are?
So off-course you should show your badge on the Adobe booth. If anything, as I have in a past life-time worked on stands at those exhibitions, I would encourage you to seek out product managers. And without raising your voice, state your case - who knows, you might even be able to get them to change things - opposed to that of hiding in the shadows, covering up your badge. I'm sure that Adobe would also welcome the opportunity discuss frankly, whilst explaining the benefits of Adobe CC. Hopefully, you might even find some common ground outside the trenches.

[Chris Pettit] "I noticed BTW that the Black Magic booth is 3 times the size of Adobe's on the floor chart"

That depends on whether your view-point is horizontal or vertical?
If you stand just outside the Adobe booth, look up, look up past the ceiling of the hall, look further up and you will see this thing called "the cloud" - which is not hardware specific driven and doesn't require three times as much space... ;-)
(OK, that was cheap - very cheap. I apologies in advance, I couldn't help myself)

Anyway, I am sad that can't be at NAB, but I will instead for a client be grazing the halls of TV Connect at Excel in London.

[Chris Pettit] "BTW I don't know what your business model is like, but there is no way I'm ever re-defining the way I do business with my clients simply because a single software company has redefined theirs"
You don't have to as Adobe CS6 is still a perfectly capable software. Alternatively, any new software introduced into your workflow, CC or otherwise, will have a Strategic Inflection Point on your business - whether you like it or not. I hope whatever your choice is, that it will be for the better.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 1:37:57 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "I think that is a really sad statement of affairs. Why wouldn't you be proud of who you are?"

Mads, it was a joke. Lighten up, you guys really do seem to have problems with dry humor...

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "That depends on whether your view-point is horizontal or vertical?
If you stand just outside the Adobe booth, look up, look up past the ceiling of the hall, look further up and you will see this thing called "the cloud" - which is not hardware specific driven and doesn't require three times as much space... ;-)"


OK, that was funny


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 1:45:21 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I noticed BTW that the Black Magic booth is 3 times the size of Adobe's on the floor chart (yes, cameras require more space) but it gives you a sense of who the big hitters in this market space may be as we move forward. Also as you enter the hall, unless I'm reading the chart incorrectly, the first thing you will see is Black Magic."

The size of a companies booth is not a corollary to how successful, viable, powerful, or sustainable they are. If that were the case, Avid would be a juggernaut today since their booth in the mid-2000's was ginormous. Sadly, that's not the case. Besides that Blackmagic has a lot of hardware to show off - switchers, routers, converters, monitors, cameras, recorders, color panels, film scanners, etc. Adobe is only showcasing software.

Just my $.02

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 9, 2015 at 2:18:34 pm

[Ryan Holmes] "The size of a companies booth is not a corollary to how successful, viable, powerful, or sustainable they are. If that were the case, Avid would be a juggernaut today since their booth in the mid-2000's was ginormous. Sadly, that's not the case. Besides that Blackmagic has a lot of hardware to show off - switchers, routers, converters, monitors, cameras, recorders, color panels, film scanners, etc. Adobe is only showcasing software."

As I stated once already, they have cameras. But the size and positioning of a booth IS a reflection of the investment in that show, therefore in that target market and therefore the impression they intend to make regarding their presence in that market. Last time I was at NAB Black Magic had a much smaller footprint and they were a much smaller player.

But again, this is just an aside to the broader conversation, nothing all that substantial in terms of where everything is going. Just an observation


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:08:32 am
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Apr 14, 2015 at 8:13:56 pm

I've been reading this thread with some interest, and I'm not all that surprised by the comparatively small size of the Adobe booth.

After all, it's NOT the Creative Cloud that's driving the bus for Adobe. It's the Marketing Cloud. There's a much, much larger customer base for Marketing Cloud. Case in point: I saw an Adobe Marketing Cloud commercial air in Mad Men last night. No kidding.

Ever see a Creative Cloud commercial in such a popular program? Ever see a Creative Cloud commercial on TV AT ALL? There's no reason for one -- too few customers to make one worthwhile. Adobe may not be raking in the dollars with Creative Cloud, but I expect it's a different story for Marketing Cloud.

If there's a big, huge convention for marketing folks comparable to NAB -- and I bet there is -- I have five whole American dollars that say you'll find a gigantic Adobe Marketing Cloud booth there.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 3:33:51 am

[Dave LaRonde] "Ever see a Creative Cloud commercial in such a popular program? Ever see a Creative Cloud commercial on TV AT ALL?"

Actually, yes! I saw a Photoshop ad on TV last week and practically did a double-take.

Dream On:







[Dave LaRonde] "There's no reason for one -- too few customers to make one worthwhile. Adobe may not be raking in the dollars with Creative Cloud, but I expect it's a different story for Marketing Cloud."

I just looked this up. In 1Q15, Adobe's total revenue was $1.11B, of which Marketing Cloud revenue was $311M.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 7:00:28 am

Love the advert! Thank you.

[Walter Soyka] "I just looked this up. In 1Q15, Adobe's total revenue was $1.11B, of which Marketing Cloud revenue was $311M"

$311M is not a bad number in comparison to Hubspot's revenue of $115.9M for 2014. (If you don't know http://www.hubspot.com/ then you should. They publish some excellent eBooks + a great blog + copyright free content)

There is also Hootsuite - but they don't share numbers.

However, the big competitor to Marketing Cloud IMHO is Google - not sure what their numbers are.

So overall, Adobe Marketing Cloud is in a nice spot, and would not surprise if it doubled revenue within the next 24 months.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 4:15:23 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Actually, yes! I saw a Photoshop ad on TV last week and practically did a double-take."

Duh. A Photoshop spot. Of course.
Adobe's flagship application, and the standard for all kinds of industries with a user base into nine figures, I'd bet. Its name has become a verb. Makes even more sense than a Marketing Cloud spot.

I still say that when I see coupons for Adobe Pro Video apps in the Sunday paper, it's time to get another job.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what software the agency used to produce it? I think I know.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 5:15:24 am

[Dave LaRonde] "I've been reading this thread with some interest, and I'm not all that surprised by the comparatively small size of the Adobe booth."

As in-artfully as I may have communicated it, my point was more that (by comparison) other previously smaller players are now quite big (Blackmagic). I did not mean to imply that Adobe is suddenly the BNC cable guy in the back of the hall hocking cheap pens to get anyone give them thier business card. The Adobe booth was VERY busy today, standing room only. (I could make observations about goofy fish face demos at this point, but will resist)

[Dave LaRonde] "If there's a big, huge convention for marketing folks comparable to NAB -- and I bet there is -- I have five whole American dollars that say you'll find a gigantic Adobe Marketing Cloud booth there."

100% agreed. Their bread is buttered elsewhere. Lots of indirect evidence of this at NAB in my opinion


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 7:04:45 am

[Chris Pettit] " The Adobe booth was VERY busy today, standing room only. (I could make observations about goofy fish face demos at this point, but will resist)"

Great stuff, sounds like that there was some user love in the air (cloud) of the Adobe booth :-)

Chris, maybe in a separate thread after NAB closes, but I wouldn't mind having your take on all of the freemium editing software on display. Obviously Black Magic is one, but how did Lightworks and Avid get on? Are people talking about those, and what is the word on the ground?

Thanks.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 7:57:43 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Great stuff, sounds like that there was some user love in the air (cloud) of the Adobe booth :-)"

Plenty of traffic and attention (I'll leave the "user love" comment alone Mads - you own that one....)

Adobe appears (to me) to be having a very successful show at NAB. The crowds this AM were overflow, no kidding. To be sure, there is a sizable population of users that either like the new approach, or more specifically, have no opinion at all regarding subscriptions and simply want the tools, Premiere being the big draw. The buzz around the Adobe booth seemed to me devoid of any observable angst regarding subscriptions, but I spent VERY little time there relative to other booths. They were unquestionably busy and full of eager visitors at all the times I was in the area.

To be honest the big demo area of the Adobe booth had taken on an air of a cult following, with Jason Levine as grand master over a kind of burning man weirdness... "how great is that???" "No really, HOW GREAT IS THAT????" ---- wait for applause----But there was a large, even overflow crowd of people at the show taking the time to participate (regardless of the weird kool-aid being served). Don't misunderstand me, tradeshows are all Horse-crap, and Premiere is a great product, but Adobe has reached new heights of hype. Truly.

But the story ends there in my opinion. The rest of us are truly beginning to leave Adobe and spend thier time and thier money with other vendors, and that was demonstrated by crowds at other booths. And its growing in terms of key issues like render speeds and workflow. Subscriptions may not be the firestorm that I think it should be (silly me), but render speeds and other efficiencies are going to kill Adobe, or more specifically kill After Effects.

OK, so that's another of my theories....


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 8:14:41 am

Hey Chris,

Thank you very much - I would have loved to be there myself, but it is 14 years since I attended the last NAB and these days get as much a kick out of reading the news online.

[Chris Pettit] "but render speeds and other efficiencies are going to kill Adobe, or more specifically kill After Effects."

Have you had a look at the re-worked AE? The new version seems to have included a number of productivity gains with regards to live preview comps and rendering.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Any Adobe Reps? Stuck in Customer Service...
on Apr 15, 2015 at 8:47:06 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Have you had a look at the re-worked AE? The new version seems to have included a number of productivity gains with regards to live preview comps and rendering."

I did. Spent time at the Adobe booth specifically asking about exactly what improvements to speeds there are, and what could be reasonable expected in the future. I understand the basics of what they are showing regarding realtime movement of objects inside of a preview, but that is simply not going to cut it as I do more 4K work. Not good enough. And I think Adobe knows that.

We may wake up tomorrow and the whole "GPU render" craze will be yesterdays news, but right now it's all I'm hearing from the people who know way more than I do about how computers handle all this render complexity.

But when I asked the Adobe people yesterday about where they are on render acceleration, GPU etc, I heard a lot about how hard it is to keep track of all the different GPU cards.

Meanwhile, Blackmagic answered the same type of question with "it works with all the video cards". They also made clear that (as you would expect) it's much more complicated than that. Different functions leverage different parts of your render workflow.

All I can tell you is that I saw realtime or close to realtime performances with Fusion and things like particles that are simply not possible in AE


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