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Strange collaboration

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Steve Brame
Strange collaboration
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:30:54 pm

Does the recent collaboration between Adobe and Avid seem a little strange, if not ominous?

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"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
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creative illusions Productions


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 26, 2015 at 10:50:19 pm

[Steve Brame] "Does the recent collaboration between Adobe and Avid seem a little strange, if not ominous?"

Yes, I noticed that too, and initially thought the same.

However, Adobe does not have the hardware installed at the large user-bases such as broadcasters and their post suppliers. And Avid have given up on the DS FX/compositing platform, with many, if not all, in-house graphics departments using Adobe in some form or another. With strong competitors like Quantel etc, then the tie-up makes perfect sense.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 6:01:38 am

I wouldn't read too much into it.

FCP 7 (and X) can run on ISIS too (though seemingly with more caveats).


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Steve Brame
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 12:41:33 pm

I've just lived through so many mergers and acquisitions over the years, I've started to get a little jumpy when I see things like this between two major competitors.

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"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 4:32:52 pm

As I write this, I'm sitting in a TV station, staring at an Avid Media Composer 6 with the Adobe Creative Cloud 2012 suite of applications loaded on it. Down the hall in News, there are 7 seats of Avid Newscutter v.9.

We don't get a choice in the software we use; the Home Office provides it, mandates that we use it and we don't question it. We deal with it and get along with what we have.

So as someone in the day-to-day trenches, I have a question:

WHAT recent collaboration between Adobe and Avid?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 4:38:05 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "WHAT recent collaboration between Adobe and Avid?"

Run up to NAB collaboration ;-)

http://www.avid.com/us/press-room/avid-isis-adobe-collaborate

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 4:40:37 pm

This collaboration:

http://www.avid.com/us/press-room/avid-isis-adobe-collaborate

This would have been helpful several years ago when I was at a Hearst station which dumped AVID as an editing platform for Promotions and Commercial production, but was still using the ISIS storage and AVID editing software for a daily news magazine show. Having the shared storage available to the Adobe suite would have been great.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 5:06:31 pm

Thanks for the link. I doubt I'll see anything like this happen at my shop.

Oh, it might happen by the time there's a new American president. Just in time for the hardware/software landscape to have totally changed.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Bill Davis
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 27, 2015 at 5:46:42 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Mar 27, 2015 at 5:48:03 pm

God bless local broadcast news and programming in general. I hope it survives.

Here in Phoenix, we still have 4 network branded locals. But I wonder for how long.

In San Diego, the NBC O&O takes ALL it's content from Atlanta - including local advertising. The TV Station doesn't even have a master control anymore. Just local sales staff. (I know this because I've been sending commercial content to Atlanta for playout in San Diego for about the past 5 years.)

And just north of my Scottsdale house, is a facility on a major telco hub that aggregates and plays out TV Station package content used throughout the pacific northwest.

I'm not even sure I understand that definition of "local TV" anymore, at least in SOME pretty major markets.

If I was selling "station gear" I'm not sure how I'd feel about my future. It's really weird.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 12:46:22 am

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Yeah, I'm confident local TV news will survive. They can do something no network, satellite TV outfit, cable system or web program source can never, EVER do:

They can cover big local breaking news live.

Now, will they all survive? Probably not. The ones that do the best job of covering local news have the advantage. And in this I include weather. Just ask people in Oklahoma what they were watching a couple of days ago when the tornadoes hit. It wasn't Netflix, I'll tell you that.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Wilson
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 2:30:49 pm

This collaboration isn't being driven entirely by the companies, and isn't being driven AT ALL by acquisitive or anti-competitive dynamics of any sort.

It's being driven by customer demand.

There's an erroneous idea floating around that people use one NLE exclusively, or products from one vendor exclusively, and it's just not all that often actually the case. Folks here may not remember that the first use of Automatic Duck was to facilitate project-level compatibility between Avid Media Composer and Symphony, and Adobe After Effects. The next iteration was to facilitate project-level compatibility between Avid applications and Final Cut Pro.

Why? Because in the real world, customers use those applications together.

Despite Avid's reputation as a closed system, nothing could be further from the truth. Interchange with Pro Tools, with Autodesk applications, with a mind-boggling array of broadcast infrastructure tools, with Flash, with a wide range of DAM and collaborative workflow management systems -- all of this was REQUIRED for Avid to fit into those workflows, and a core reason for Avid's more or less unchallenged hegemony in those workflows.

It's also critical to understand that ISIS isn't "just storage." Sure, it scales down to 4TB and can be treated like "just storage," but its design is intended to serve as a collaborative nexus.

For example, the "bottom" end of the ISIS line scales to 384 TB, with 90 users, in up to 25 workspaces. The value of ISIS in that context is DIRECTLY proportional with the number of applications that it supports -- and not just supports "in general," but to the highest possible degree of compatibility, which includes the greatest possible access to metadata and a whole slew of other key information that companies don't typically expose...but which collaboration at this a high a level absolutely demands.

I'd have to look this up, but iirc the maximum capacity is something like 3 petabytes.

Definitely note that, in addition to Premiere Pro, ISIS supports Smoke, Final Cut Pro X, and DaVinci Resolve; and a wide variety of high-res media formats, including REDCODE 5K, 4K DCI (DPX), ProRes, XAVC, and Sony F55 RAW 4K....again, pretty much off the top of my head. Somebody can surely correct me.

What's the upside for Adobe? The insertion of Premiere Pro into the heart of the workflows that are traditionally Avid's long suit. These include features and episodics where, contrary to the hype, Avid has yet to be seriously challenged. NOT because of dinosaur or "closed" mentalities...but in fact because other options are not nearly open enough. They don't understand the range of collaborative connections that are absolutely essential to real-world workflows in these kinds of environments.

This is in opposition to Apple's approach, which is to provide the least amount of extensibility that it can possibly get away with. This has always been a hallmark, that, depending on your perspective, is either Apple's greatest weakness, or its greatest strength. For people for whom Apple is enough, it's fantastic. But there's no doubt that FCPX introduced limits to third-party collaboration that FCP 7 could manage in its sleep.

As noted of course, ISIS in fact supports FCPX. And just as with Adobe, not because of any collusion with Apple, or any collapse of Avid's ambitions or loss of focus, but because Avid's customers demand it, and because Apple wants access to the kinds of workflows that nobody supports to the extent that Avid does...and which Apple doesn't otherwise have interest in building itself.

Or to summarize as I should have at the beginning of this post, and maybe just left it at that -- bloody unlikely LOL -- it only looks strange if you're not an Avid customer, or are not familiar with Avid's longtime commitment to the widest possible range of collaborative options.

I haven't had to mention this in a while, but I'll mention it for the sake of newcomers: in addition to being a customer of Avid...and Apple, and Adobe, and Media 100, and many others...I worked at Avid for a while soon after the turn of the century, and was there when ISIS was launched. But my perspective is largely customer-driven, as I saw that Avid customers simply wouldn't tolerate limits on third-party interop. And indeed, one of the hallmarks of ISIS's development is interop expansion.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 4:26:07 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Folks here may not remember that the first use of Automatic Duck was to facilitate project-level compatibility between Avid Media Composer and Symphony, and Adobe After Effects. The next iteration was to facilitate project-level compatibility between Avid applications and Final Cut Pro."

Folks might not know either that Adobe hired the father & Son team behind Automatic Duck to make integrate their cool tools and knowledge into Adobe CC. Last time I checked, the old versions of the A. Duck was made available for free.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Steve Brame
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 4:48:44 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Because in the real world, customers use those applications together."

Exactly! I used to use Allaire and Macromedia products together - and Macromedia and Adobe products together - and Serious Magic and Adobe products together. I still use them all together, albeit under one name.

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-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Tim Wilson
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 5:32:16 pm

[Steve Brame] "Exactly! I used to use Allaire and Macromedia products together - and Macromedia and Adobe products together - and Serious Magic and Adobe products together."

When I was at Avid, a Macromedia VP paid a visit to us, to emphasize that Flash and Media Composer needed integration at the highest level. This wasn't just a matter of tweaking at the product management level.

Quite obviously, the core users of both products had no need for the other...but the most common NLE for websites working on large-scale Flash video deployments was Media Composer.(One of the biggest I saw was Red Bull, who really does do a lot of cutting-edge dynamic web video.) Once we started looking at this from the Media Composer side, we saw some obvious connections.

Another was the massive power of Flash and Flex driven by databases. There was no easy way to get the results onto air, which Macromedia hoped to enable through compatability with Avid's own broadcast databases. This was helpful for things like election results for example.

I had the great pleasure of visiting the big Flash conference in New Orleans that year, still my only trip to that lovely town, to meet with a number of key developers for these advanced feature sets within Flash that might have the most productive integrations. The meeting was graciously hosted by the aforementioned Macromedia VP...

...who I was only too happy to see make his way to Adobe. :-) Jim Guerard, currently Vice President & General Manager, Digital Media Enterprise Solutions, and to this day, one of my favorite guys in any corner of the industry.

As seen in the COW, Adobe is packed wall-to-wall with sharp, engaged, and far-sighted individuals. Even at our most hammer-and-tongs conflicts in here, that has largely been acknowledged, but I think it's worth repeating.

It's also worth repeating that some of these integrations are being driven by more than just the editing part of the thing. "The tip of the iceberg" is an understatement, although there's certainly no disrespect intended for those of us polar bears and penguins who live mostly on the tip.


[Steve Brame] ""98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'.""

Indeed. :-)


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Steve Brame
Re: Strange collaboration
on Mar 28, 2015 at 8:23:00 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Adobe is packed wall-to-wall with sharp, engaged, and far-sighted individuals."

Two words...Karl Soule.

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-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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