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Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts

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Chris Pettit
Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 4:50:59 am

Adobe has clearly still not figured out profitability with their new subscriptions only model. Notice the lack fine print in this ad, no "only for one year" disclaimers. No "only for CS users" language. They simply state that the complete CC package is $29.99



But of course the ACTUAL story once you link to payment terms (nothing new here at all except they are STILL reduced to this kind of marketing)is first year only for CS users only:



Profits are still a fraction of what they were for Adobe. They are still offering discounts with conditions. No core application packages even though even loyal subscribers have asked for them repeatedly. If everyone loved this, they would have quit this stuff a long time ago.

I used Adobe CS6 today. Used CS6 yesterday. Would like to use Adobe products tomorrow. But probably not, this is a company that has totally lost it's way and lost it's identity.


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Bill Davis
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 6:40:59 am

Well, obviously they aren't the only "marketing driven" company out there.

I have been a bit surprised at where they're doing ad placement.

QVC for the Photographers Subscription?



Seemed kinda weird.

Then again, with large ad campaigns, it's typical to buy purely by demographics and reach and frequency - so often nobody's really paying that much attention to the specific ad outlets or web adjacencies.

Still, that did catch my eye.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:12:12 pm

[Bill Davis] "Well, obviously they aren't the only "marketing driven" company out there."

Agreed. Mostly just pointing out how nothing has changed. Those discounts were originally declared to be limited time offers. It's been 2 years now

The sheer number of webpages I go to daily where I see adds for Creative Cloud is staggering. There is not other company other than Sony that appears to be as aggressive


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 11:27:21 am

Hey Chris,

[Chris Pettit] "Adobe has clearly still not figured out profitability with their new subscriptions only model. Notice the lack fine print in this ad, no "only for one year" disclaimers. No "only for CS users" language. They simply state that the complete CC package is $29.99"

I can see that your JPeg is a bit blurred - might have been better if you've used the new improved smart sharpen filter in Photoshop CC ;-)
Setting that aside that you forgot in your appraisal of the Adobe offer to mention that it states (as shown on your displayed JPeg):
From US$29.99/mo
Rather than your "is $29.99".

As always, let's state the facts, rather than the (mis)interpretations.

However, the investors in Adobe stock is clearly not as bright as some of the people on this forum, as the stock yesterday hit its highest point in the last 10 years:
http://money.aol.co.uk/quote/nasdaq/adobe-systems/adbe/charts

Go figure :-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Steve Connor
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 11:43:19 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "I can see that your JPeg is a bit blurred - might have been better if you've used the new improved smart sharpen filter in Photoshop CC ;-)"

Ha!


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 1:29:54 pm

the problem with a $29.subscrition is that they make the subscrition numbers but not the income. this subscrition is only a trial and means no future comitment. while stocks are up earnings are not, so when push comes to shove if adobe doesnt reflect earnings these stocks will be worthless.

ricardo marty


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 1:41:15 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "the problem with a $29.subscrition is that they make the subscrition numbers but not the income. this subscrition is only a trial and means no future comitment. while stocks are up earnings are not, so when push comes to shove if adobe doesnt reflect earnings these stocks will be worthless."

With all due respect: That is a load of b*ll*cks.

The subscription is no different to any other offer out in the market, including those of dropbox, microsoft and others - you get enticed to on-board at a reduced cost, and after 12 months you can either go to full rate, or leave - taking your source files with you, but not the use of software and cloud storage...

Once more: Adobe stock yesterday hit the highest point for 10 years, in fact in its lifetime. That is despite the continued doomsday preaching going on in this forum about the immediate demise of a company; who are continuing to support their recent legacy products, to allow those same preachers time to find new suppliers, or upgrade to the new platform.


All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:41:48 pm

Adobe might be on it´s alltime high the last days.
But the whole Application market does very well over the last month.
I think their CEO threw out that big amounts of his stock to invest it in AVID or Apple.
These companies - who provide fair licenses & not only subscriptions - made a Plus of 70 % (Apple) or 130 % ! (AVID) over the last year.
(whereas Adobe roundabout 17%).
> > Google
Also the other companies, like MS or Autodesk, who try to establish subscriptions are at the same level like Adobe.
As said before: These radikal change of distribution is more a sign of a lack in innovation & new features than a customer advantage.

I also think, we will see more discounts shortly (3weeks) before Adobes next investor-/busines-conference.
Only for a short time again (...because we have to show WallStreet a big Plus at our subscribers - and we can´t present big revenue)


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 8:04:04 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "These companies - who provide fair licenses & not only subscriptions - made a Plus of 70 % (Apple) or 130 % ! (AVID) over the last year. (whereas Adobe roundabout 17%)."

You're not wrong about this. I might add, though, stretch back the zoom level and look at Adobe since they introduced CC in 2013 and you get a very different story:
Avid +109%
Apple +80%
Adobe +109%

Adobe's stock has been a steady earner for literally the last 15+ years. And their growth rate in just the last few has also been impressive.

[Rainer Schubert] "As said before: These radikal change of distribution is more a sign of a lack in innovation & new features than a customer advantage. "

I generally only hear this said about Adobe, and not other subscription based companies - Red Giant, Autodesk, Avid, Microsoft, IBM, etc. If the narrative is that Adobe has shot you in the arm and is watching you bleed then I guess it would fit that anything they do (sell stock, move to subscription, how they number their releases, etc) would be read in light of that. However, as others have pointed out (see Tim's comment specifically) , you can disagree over the subscription model as an approach, but the idea that Adobe isn't pushing their products forward, or offering new and better workflows (i.e. innovating) for those of us in the creative community just isn't reality.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 11:16:17 pm

[Ryan Holmes] "I generally only hear this said about Adobe"
OK, then it´s said now: It´s just the same with Microsoft.
In my eyes, they are far away from innovative.
And try (even more unsuccessfull as Adobe) to use subscriptions to cover the lack.
And only companies with a nearby monopoly character try to go on subscription.
(In fields, where you find a real competition, they do not dare, they know, users don´t like it and will change)

[Ryan Holmes] "but the idea that Adobe isn't pushing their products forward"
Maybe the Videotools get forward, but I can´t see where the innovation was - since CC (Cut Choice) - if I think of PS, ID, AI, DW…
(which you have to buy and pay also)
I can´t see any advantage in "Mobile Versions" for professional work.
The few Synchronization Tools, Cloud Storage?
To be realistic: The Innovation in this field would not be worth, to be called a Version Step.

[Ryan Holmes] "new and better workflows"
Loosing access to files (if I stop paying) isn´t a better workflow in my eyes…
(And kills all advantages - for me - they might bring in in future)

[Ryan Holmes] "stretch back the zoom"
The remove of choice was at may 6, 2013.
Since that: AVID - 125% / Apple - 101% / Adobe - 68%.
Your numbers are from the beginning 2013, or?
(PS.: The beginning of CC was in 2012)
One can also see, that the development of Adobe (and also other subscription software) - compared to APPL & AVID - is moving downwards rapidly.

But after all, may be they did me an favor.
I discovered many alternative apps I don´t want to miss.
A great chance for competition.
A few weeks ago tried the Beta of Affinitys new Photoshop Alternative "Photo" for MAC.
It´s that unbelievable fast (really! Not comparable with PS) and has phantastic features.
(The AI-Alternative "Designer" is also very strange and much more intuitive than Illustrator - all for the price of one month of this so called "Cloud". And a lifetime usage)


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 5, 2015 at 12:53:51 am

Hey Rainer,

[Rainer Schubert] "One can also see, that the development of Adobe (and also other subscription software) - compared to APPL & AVID - is moving downwards rapidly."

What actual evidence do you have for this statement?

I haven't found anywhere that Adobe have reduced their development of subscription, if anything judging from all of the CC upgrades, they are standing on the accelerator pedal.

Where as Avid has gone from premium price, to discount, to let's give you the light versions for free - after they sold and/or closed a number of crown jewels including Softimage and DS to mention some.

APPL ain't making their money on peddling professional software - if anything their gearbox on some of those packages of yesterday, seems to have cranked into reverse in comparison to Adobe...

Don't get me started on the daily pleasures of FreeAgent and Office 365.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 5, 2015 at 11:17:52 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Don't get me started on the daily pleasures of ... Office 365"

??? In my Eyes the MS Office 356 is a complete catastrophe. But may be you see it different.
Since Off. 2003 the complete set of application gets more and more unuseable with every version step.
As we have to use it often for some clients, we made tests if we can do our jobs faster with the actual Off or Off 2003.
In nearby all cases we did it faster with 2003 (30% - 50%).
Next: The horror of Win 8? (Or do i remember right, that you love that too? - For me it´s not to discuss.)
And so on.
But if you ike it - why should I tell you you don´t have to ;).



[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "the development of Adobe"

It was meant in context. Not the Application development - The development of stock.
(And without the Video-Tools I can´t see, where Adobe accelerator pedal is)


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 8:12:51 am

[Rainer Schubert] "??? In my Eyes the MS Office 356 is a complete catastrophe. But may be you see it different."

Yes, I am a happy bunny with Office 365. Although I from time also use Google Docs - Office is my work horse.

[Rainer Schubert] "Next: The horror of Win 8?"

Actually no (now on 8.1 pro), despite the new windows interface it is really nice to use - I don't understand what all the fuss is about. But then I use key-board shortcuts for most of the important tasks, and enjoy the same old for the rest.

However, my Windows mobile phone is too slow, in particularly for Skype - which IMHO needs a new direction of product management - I can't say that enough times.

[Rainer Schubert] "
It was meant in context. Not the Application development - The development of stock.
(And without the Video-Tools I can´t see, where Adobe accelerator pedal is)"


I'm not sure why anyone is bothering about Adobe's share price? Do you choose your car brand based on whether the share is up or down? Or fridge, television, bed, milk, ham - so why Adobe? Maybe it is just a cheap way of throwing flint-stones at their armor, in return for them changing their ways... Nevertheless, it is a bit sad that a company that have continuously showed that their shares can grow, keeps on getting mauled ;-)
Anyway, I hope that it inspires them to do better.

However, your statement about Video-Tools being the only thing that Adobe is doing, is so, so, so very wrong.
They are one of the biggest, in providing consumer data insights from digital devices:
http://www.adobe.com/uk/solutions/digital-analytics.html & http://www.adobe.com/uk/solutions/digital-marketing.html
Their marketing cloud in general is at a level where they can charge a premium for people to come and hear about it at the Summit, Excel, London.

However, you would need to be in the cloud, rather than looking up at it, to get how that business works for Adobe... (Please accept my apologies now, as that was a cheap punt which have no place in a discussion on the merits of CS and CC)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 9:01:48 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "not sure why anyone is bothering about Adobe's share price"

Indeed - it´s not necessary, but it´s mostly used as an indicator for the success/unsuccess of this so called cloud.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "They are one of the biggest, in providing consumer data insights from digital devices"

This thread is about "Creative Cloud". Indeed - Adobe bought many marketing tools from the market.
And is on it´s way to create a similar monopoly standing in the field of marketing, like they did with the Creative market.
So, when I´m talking about missing innovation/features I´m only talking about CC.
And every bet: Without the income of Marketing Cloud, Adobe wouldn´t have risked to Cut the Choice.
Without that income their financial situation (revenue) would be much more down, than today.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 4:15:40 pm

Hey Rainer,

[Rainer Schubert] "Indeed - it´s not necessary, but it´s mostly used as an indicator for the success/unsuccess of this so called cloud"

So based on that statement and the current price of Adobe shares, we can conclude that the cloud is indeed very successful... :-)

[Rainer Schubert] "So, when I´m talking about missing innovation/features I´m only talking about CC."

In all fairness, as you are not a CC user and presented nothing to support that statement, you can't possibly talk negatively about innovation, features and CC in the same line?

[Rainer Schubert] "And every bet: Without the income of Marketing Cloud, Adobe wouldn´t have risked to Cut the Choice.
Without that income their financial situation (revenue) would be much more down, than today."


Again, there are no evidence to support this argument.

Quite to the contrary, with some of the latest innovation in the Media Encoder CC such as direct publishing of videos to the likes of YouTube etc, I think that you will find that Adobe is on a mission to make all of their software innovative and able to pay nicely together.
Wouldn't it be cool if Muse and/or dreamweaver automatically updated the landing page depending on A/B testing in the marketing software?

Or if anytime someone signed up to a product that Acrobat Pro, InDesign or indeed Premiere Pro would spew out personalised documents, magazines or videos to the new customer?

But as you would correctly say: You need to be in the cloud, to dream up those kind of crazy thoughts ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 5:52:30 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Mar 6, 2015 at 6:22:50 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "conclude that the cloud is indeed very successful... "
OK, but not nearly as successful as the Competition, who has no need to jump on subscription.
(as written: AVIDs stock development f. ex. was more than 10times better over the last year…)

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "as you are not a CC user"
I don´t have to hire that cloud to know what it is.
I´m in the graphical business for more than 30 yrs and also giving seminars.
Meanwhile I have enough feedback of what this cloud is (or not).
And I´m permanently updated with information.
Beside the fact, I read a lot.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "can't possibly talk negatively about innovation"
Was a question some posts above, and I said, that I cant see that big innovation if I think of PS, InD, DW, AI… (not the Video tools) which is worth to call it more than a version step since the Cut of Choice.
Teach me the opposite.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Or if anytime someone signed up to a product that Acrobat Pro, InDesign or indeed Premiere Pro would spew out personalised documents, magazines or videos to the new customer?"
Not a song of tomorrow. We did that already similar with QuarkXPress and years ago. OK - we used a complete range of products and we had to program that by hand through great parts, but it did it´s job.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Again, there are no evidence to support this argument"
Regarding to their own business reports, their net profit is far below 2012 Level now.
See this post of Chris https://i1.creativecow.net/99699/20140322_wbc548.png
(And also Adobe.com > Investors)

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Wouldn't it be cool if Muse and/or dreamweaver automatically updated the landing page depending on A/B testing in the marketing software?"
I don´t think, it would be a great problem for my programming gurus, to change the apperance (or the landing page) of a web-site based on a test.
And I also don´t think they need anything out of the cloud for that.
Or did I understand you wrong?

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "You need to be in the cloud, to dream up those kind of crazy thoughts"
I´m very glad about, that this whole debate isn´t anything I´m dreaming of ;)


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 8, 2015 at 11:30:33 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "I don´t have to hire that cloud to know what it is.
I´m in the graphical business for more than 30 yrs and also giving seminars.
Meanwhile I have enough feedback of what this cloud is (or not).
And I´m permanently updated with information.
Beside the fact, I read a lot."


But how can you talk with any kind of authority on a subject of the Adobe CC when you are refusing to even try it? Wouldn't 30 years experience as a successful person in your field make you curious enough to take the 30 day free trial? In my first year I had to learn how to do manual typesetting for a letterpress - but have served my clients best, by having actual knowledge about new methods, rather than the secondhand stuff they themselves can collect from forums.

As long as you refuse to try it out for real, you cannot seriously lecture anyone about the facts of the Adobe CC.

That last line really answers the rest of your post - until you try it, we really will have to agree to disagree.

PS: Keep in mind that this week Adobe plc share-price hit the highest peak it has ever had - the "Recommendation Trends" for the stock for the last three months is "Hold, Buy, Strong Buy" - none of the 22 analyst firms are saying "Sell" - they are not as tuned or educated in those things, as evidently by some of the "voices of doom" are on this forum... ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 9, 2015 at 1:53:08 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "But how can you talk with any kind of authority"
Whenever I feel the need to test any functionality of this so called cloud, I can do that at one of the colleagues with whom I am on friendly terms.
Don´t think of me as a person who never had an eye on the clouds, also I´m standing on solid ground.
A 30 days trial is problematic, as I heard, that the installation of CC will also corrupt/manipulate an existing CS installation.
And I simply don´t feel the need, to test something, I will never rent.
BtW: I can´t install it on some machines who are not allowed to communicate with the web (have to be offline) for data-security reasons.
Adobes Apps are calling "home" all the time (also CS likes to, but you can run it offline).
After all: I would use Adobe Products - no question, if I have the choice to own the license.
The missing File-Access after subscription is an argument thats an absolute NoGo.
The Software can be as good as it may (And, yes - the products are good).
It´s the absolute killer argument, and I will never accept. As long as there are alternatives, I will use them.
And I don´t like to reward any company, who tries to push it´s business results with going on subscription.
(And nothing NOTHING else it is. A serious company, a company, who knows, it´s products are worth every cent, would have an ear, for those clients who don´t like to rent. Maybe other conditions, higher price, no continuous updates or after a time of usage. They know, why they cut the choice instead of trusting in a good subscription and offer it parallel)

PS: "22 analyst firms are saying "Sell"": These analysts are like the rating agencies. I wish you good luck, if you invest in stocks based on these recommendations (I think, everyone would be rich, if…).


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Chris Pettit
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:03:50 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "I can see that your JPeg is a bit blurred - might have been better if you've used the new improved smart sharpen filter in Photoshop CC ;-)"

Got a good laugh out of that Mads!


[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "
As always, let's state the facts, rather than the (mis)interpretations."


My point was never to imply it was 29.99 for a whole year, that wasn't the point, it was that there is no mention of the fact that at the end of the year it goes up to the regular 49.99 per month. Something like ("first year only") would be stating that facts better from Adobe don't you think?


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:16:22 pm

[Chris Pettit] "there is no mention of the fact that at the end of the year it goes up to the regular 49.99 per month."

Well the "Save up to 40% ON FIRST YEAR"-is pretty straightforward to me. There's also the "See terms"-link for more info. This isn't some Adobe specific sales voodoo.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:25:53 pm

[Tero Ahlfors] "Well the "Save up to 40% ON FIRST YEAR"-is pretty straightforward to me. There's also the "See terms"-link for more info. This isn't some Adobe specific sales voodoo."

Really? In the first snapshot I posted? Where?


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:34:23 pm

In the first pic they state that the pricing starts from 29.99 which is true if you're eligible for that offer. This isn't anything new/illegal/fraudulent unless one is, for some reason, super bitter about a company and tries to find anything to prove how EEEVIL they are.

Scratch's starting price is 50 bucks! That's pretty cheap? WHAT DO YOU MEAN FOR ONE DAY! ASSIMILATE IS TERRIBLE!


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Chris Pettit
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:46:47 pm

[Tero Ahlfors] "In the first pic they state that the pricing starts from 29.99 which is true if you're eligible for that offer. This isn't anything new/illegal/fraudulent unless one is, for some reason, super bitter about a company and tries to find anything to prove how EEEVIL they are."

True, nothing new. I was really just trying to start a new discussione because its been quiet in here for a while.

But for some reason it never fails to descend into condescension and personal attacks does it?

I regret posting. I really don't want to spend time with people hurling insults back and forth, that was not my intention.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:56:32 pm

Hey Chris,

[Chris Pettit] "
True, nothing new. I was really just trying to start a new discussione because its been quiet in here for a while.

But for some reason it never fails to descend into condescension and personal attacks does it?

I regret posting. I really don't want to spend time with people hurling insults back and forth, that was not my intention."


Agreed, I took it a bit to far and would like to apologize for that. Also to Richardo.

Although we may not agree, I think it is important that the opposition/dissidents/minority/majority (cross out as you see fit) have a place to raise concerns and debate issues. And those should not be shot down in flames, because ultimately you guys are the users pushing Adobe to do better than better, rather than us who have already chosen CC.

English is my second language and my "birthright" is for me to head straight on in my opinions. That is not an excuse, but a reason for why some statements of mine might come across as Black & White, rather than the colors of the rainbow.

So let's keep this forum alive and well - without getting too heated.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Chris Pettit
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 3:01:07 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Agreed, I took it a bit to far and would like to apologize for that. Also to Richardo."

I wasn't referring to you Mads. Personally had no issues with your post.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "So let's keep this forum alive and well - without getting too heated."

Agreed, thanks


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:38:56 pm

Hey Chris,

Apologies if the punt was to cheap, but I couldn't help it.

[Chris Pettit] "My point was never to imply it was 29.99 for a whole year, that wasn't the point, it was that there is no mention of the fact that at the end of the year it goes up to the regular 49.99 per month. Something like ("first year only") would be stating that facts better from Adobe don't you think?"

No, what I wrote was:
Setting that aside that you forgot in your appraisal of the Adobe offer to mention that it states (as shown on your displayed JPeg):
From US$29.99/mo
Rather than your "is $29.99".

To clarify: The key is the difference in the use of the words "from" and "is" - "from" clearly suggests that there are a higher price point.

Where as the "is" that you used, wrongly implies that the price is fixed, which as we know: it is not.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 5:15:40 pm

Yeah, Adobe's deals are reminiscent of commercials you see on TV for cel phone service providers or department stores.

Certainly not what you'd expect from someone trying to rent suites of multimedia production applications.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 5:26:16 pm

Hey Dave,

If only they were trying to sell old second hand cars...

However, CC is a vast improvement over CS. And it has been suggested by those in the know, that we soon will be in for a real treat with After Effects.

What I'm saying is: The title of this thread is wrong, as in that if you had worked on CC, then you would know that much have changed, rather than nothing :-)

With regards to the style of advertising: is it that different to Avid, Blackmagic etc? And do we not want colorful images showing us what we can do with the software? As opposed to a dark smelly room in the basement occupied by an ultra-conservative old-style "creative"?

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 6:29:25 pm

No, but I AM saying that Adobe's marketing strategy seems to be more consumer-oriented than ever before, which is extremely odd considering the nature of the products they sell.. er, rent.

What's next, money-saving coupons for Adobe products in the Sunday papers and direct mail?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 7:00:11 pm

Hey Dave,

[Dave LaRonde] "No, but I AM saying that Adobe's marketing strategy seems to be more consumer-oriented than ever before, which is extremely odd considering the nature of the products they sell.. er, rent.

What's next, money-saving coupons for Adobe products in the Sunday papers and direct mail?"


That is true, but maybe also a statement of who their new expanded client base will be? As in that those who are already using Adobe professionally will be making a natural progression to it, or not.

Our local "Best Buy" is stocking Adobe CC cards the size of mobile sim package cards that you can buy. Neatly displayed amongst Microsoft and others. Would not surprised if you found those on the front of PC and Mac magazines too - "try 1 month free". And why not, it is the way Premiere was originally distributed...

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Tim Wilson
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 7:20:42 pm

But Dave, using your very interesting example of cell phone providers -- there's no necessary distinction between my 103 year old great-grandmother or my 19 year old son, or between Elon Musk and Lindsay Lohan. They all have phones, and they all care about their phone plans. You aim your advertising at everyone who spends money.

And if you can get a self-aggrandizing billionaire tech giant TV camera hog who owns a basketball team (all of which I say with admiration and envy) to pretend to be in one of your mall stores, you do. Because self-aggrandizing billionaire tech giants who own basketball teams and inexplicably appear on cheesy TV shows have families who run up the data plan when they're on vacation. Billionaires, tech giants, basketball team owners, camera hogs, people who wouldn't mind being any or all of those things, and DADS are all nodding their heads.

As the 7th-largest software company in the world, Adobe has a very wide net to cast. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, questions whether or not Adobe's products are capable, and in most cases, best of category. Adobe has no need for their message to be, "Okay everybody, when I yell 'After' I want you to yell back 'Effects!' Everybody ready? I CAN'T HEAR YoUUUUUUU!"

Frankly, Adobe hasn't done that kind of advertising in, what, a decade or more? Their MARKETING, executed primarily through PR (whether their own customer stories or external reviews), has been focused on "this is what it does." From CS1 in 2003, their AD messaging has been, "And you get alllllll this for one low price."

(BTW, in all the fuss criticizing the hot air in Apple's PR and Avid's PR, have you noticed that NOBODY is bringing up Adobe? Because Adobe NAILS their PR.

Apple's story is, "You can feel good about yourself now! Somebody created something you heard of using the same stuff YOU use!"

Avid's story is, "You can feel good about us now! Nearly everything you've heard of is made with stuff that you can use too!"

Adobe's story is: "You know our stuff works. Here's an example."

Nobody freaked out over whether "Gone Girl" publicity was a big fat puff piece scam, because everybody KNOWS that Adobe is up to the task.

The ONLY thing we're arguing about, the ONLY thing, is whether $29 or $49 a month is actually a low price, or a trojan horse to an infinitely high price.

In the meantime, Adobe is using advertising for what advertising SHOULD be used for, for virtually everyone, virtually all of the time, and IS: a call to action. It's true for $49 software, $4900 mattresses, and $49,000 cars. They all have sales so often (Labor Day! President's Day! NAB!) that shopping = shopping for what's on sale. On sale? Sold!

Maybe it's also because I've spent most of my career trying to balance long stories with short calls to action, but Adobe's approach tells me that they're the one company in this business who has the best idea of how to leverage PR to keep their advertising message as crisp as possible.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 11:28:22 pm

Ever heard of target groups?
(And what the hell marketing gurus are trying to exclude "non targets"? To keep marketing costs efficient?)

That said: It´s surprising, that Adobe (which offers professional software) covers the "total market" now.
(which makes sense for products like cell-phones - which are used by total market (everyone), but professional software???)
Should SAP / Autodesk / IBM / Realflow spend money in TV-Spots?
May be Apple, yes, but Adobe…?

But surely not the right place to discuss…


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 5, 2015 at 12:44:05 am

Hey Rainer,

[Rainer Schubert] "That said: It´s surprising, that Adobe (which offers professional software) covers the "total market" now.
(which makes sense for products like cell-phones - which are used by total market (everyone), but professional software???)
Should SAP / Autodesk / IBM / Realflow spend money in TV-Spots?
May be Apple, yes, but Adobe…?"


That is really a question about how ignorant one wants to appear?

Yes, Adobe is selling to a mass market, and yes again, the CC platform caters for a large part of that.
Acrobat XI Pro is used by many other professions than those in media.
Audition CC offers a full audio software editing software that can cover a number outlets.
How about easy website building in Muse?
Or digital publishing in InDesign and InCopy?
Not forgetting uncle Joe wanting nephew Pete to use Adobe Gaming SDK to make the family alot of money with...
It's all in the CC package + all the other tools that we know (& love).

Obviously, if you want the brand to fail, you might prefer them not to advertise? And especially not on a screen that you are watching - I do get it.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 5, 2015 at 12:06:55 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Mar 5, 2015 at 7:56:53 pm

Hi Mads

You really want to tell me, that mass market (everyone) will spend 600 bugs a year to create private websites with muse?
(Especially, when one can get Web-Editors for the price of an egg?)
Will spend 600 bugs a year and invest the time to learn InDesign, for some birthday invitations? (He can do with Office also)
That there is no alternative to audition below the 600$/yr?
There are no very useful alternative PDF-Editors? Some of them for 0 $.
(All of them without the need to pay a lifetime to preserve file-access)
Photoshop has no competition for a 10% price?
(in case of private needs and under the condition one will loose the access to his family-photos if he don´t pay to the end of all times)
Mass market will buy a set of tools, of which he can use 5%?
50 bugs a month is OK for professional users but mass market (everyone) is different and price sensitive.

OK.
If Adobe is on it´s way to translate itself into a mass market company (like apple did - what wasn´t a pleasure for professional users), then this might be the way.
And maybe "Cloud" is somewhat like Apples "i"XYZ.
But then it makes no sense (in my eyes) to offer the complete package of mass-market gimmicks combined with high-end professional tools.
Which require special hardware also.
(The same with Apple: The radical change into a Gadget-Company for Lifestyle Youngsters, the iGotyou philosophy, had the side-effect, that professional users are more and more annoyed. Development of Mac Pro - Yrs of downtime.)

Should Adobe do the same, or what?

Or am I wrong?


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 8:45:03 am

Hey Rainer,

[Rainer Schubert] "You really want to tell me, that mass market (everyone) will spend 600 bugs a year"

Yes, do think that there are people out there willing to spend "600 bugs" a year, as we evidently already know. No, I don't think anyone would spend it on just one isolated package, hence why Adobe CC is offering you to rent individual packages for the month. As in that you could get Muse (or InDesign) to use for two months for £27.00 (incl 1 month free trial) - but you knew that already, didn't you? ;-)
(Funny, whilst I'm writing this Adobe CC have just alerted me to a new update for Muse with a number of functionality improvements)

[Rainer Schubert] "If Adobe is on it´s way to translate itself into a mass market company (like apple did - what wasn´t a pleasure for professional users), then this might be the way."

Adobe already is a mass market company - they are not a boutique developer of graphics and grading software like some would have them be. Remember, many of their tools that professionals used to laugh at, such as Premiere Pro, have now caught up and is giving the competition a run for their money. Just look at Avid, what was the original late 1990's price for a Media Composer v Premiere Pro? Feel free to laugh at the thought of that; but Avid software have plummeted in price, in comparison to where Premiere Pro is priced at today.

However, if Adobe becomes complacent in their product development and marketing, then as this forum have shown, there are plenty of newcomers and established packages who will be gunning for their current (IMHO) top spot.

PS: Don't forget that stock-listed companies often have to put out advertising that pleases the investors more, than attracting new customers - hence why you should not be surprised finding the likes of BusinessWeek, Forbes and heavyweight Sunday papers carrying print and digital adverts for a company such as Adobe.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 10:57:58 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Yes, ... there are people ... willing to spend "600 bugs" .... "
Do you know them personally?
Me not.
And I can´t imagine that there is a relevant, unprofessional/private usership (appart from the PS-Community).

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "As in that you could get Muse (or InDesign) to use for two months for £27.00 (incl 1 month free trial)"
To be true: You get one month for 27, and only one app. The trial is only once.
And I also can´t imagine, that someone (who is a non-professional) will rent InDesign for a month to create some private documents.
(He will need that time to learn how it works)
A few cents more and he will get iLife or an Office Package for a lifetime usage.
I don´t know any (private) person, who ever did that (beside PS).
And instead of Muse there are so many Web-Editors and Services, you can use, I can´t count them.
(Beside the fact, that a professional wouldn´t use it - Muse is indeed more a Mass Market product)

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "have now caught up and is giving the competition a run for their money"
It´s not Adobe who lowered the prices. I can remember times, where we have to spend x-tenthousand Euros for the yearly usage of our 3D-Software.
Unimaginable today. The prices lowered with the amount of users in the last twenty years.
But after all: Price is absolutely not my concern.
The fee would be (more than) OK for professional usage, if they wouldn´t cut the file-access. That simple.
But I don´t think, that it´s OK for private usage (And as far as I see at my personal friends and relatives, I´m right).


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 4:39:35 pm

Hey Rainer,

[Rainer Schubert] "Do you know them personally?
Me not."


Nope, and you won't find me making the outrageous statement previously made in another post on this forum about people knowing what millions of customers thinks about Adobe CC.

[Rainer Schubert] "To be true: You get one month for 27, and only one app. The trial is only once."

May I correct myself as per my earlier statement on this thread: The cost of Muse CC starts from £13.33.
Which is a very long way down from the 600 bugs that you were talking about.
Let's be fair about this: How do you define a mass-market?
I'm guessing it is more than 1 user.
By all accounts any number above 1 million could easily go for mass market product. Particularly a product such as the CC suite that appeals to photographers, designers, web programmers, publishers, audio engineers, moving graphics & video FX, directors and video editors. Wouldn't you agree, that this alone is a mass-market?

Now, the mass-market are those who would not make a professional income out of using CC, but may want to learn it. I know that you know private people subscribing to Photoshop. But how about all the people who gives their time to charities, NGO's, churches, family businesses - do they not have place with Adobe? That group is fairly large and should not be discounted out of prejudice.

Although that there are plenty of alternatives, you can't dismiss that Adobe have a sweet spot with many tutorials, great places to get help and access to freelancers who knows how to use it. One of my web-hosts (1and1) even used to give dreamweaver for free to people who took their premium package (don't know if they still do it). Before CMS such as WordPress took hold, I know of several small organisations, that was not in the business, who got limited training and used Dreamweaver to update their websites with.

When that is said: Since Adobe don't need to advertise for my custom, I like you, would prefer them not to advertise at all, and instead spend all of the money on development - although, if they.., sorry, when they double their CC user base, this should far outweigh money available for increasing product R&D and improvements.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 6, 2015 at 6:18:23 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Mar 7, 2015 at 1:51:36 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "May I correct myself as per my earlier statement on this thread: The cost of Muse CC starts from £13.33.
Which is a very long way down from the 600 bugs that you were talking about.
"

A single App here in Germany is 24€/mth (only for private use and obviously more than in UK), the complete Cloud is 69,99€/mth f. professional use (= 840€/y).
(Private version is 59,49€/mth = 714€/yr)

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "How do you define a mass-market"
To my knowledge of marketing: A mass-market product is somewhat nearby everybody is the target group for.
Products like cell-phones (not the high-class ones), most food, etc.
Products, that TV Spots make sense for.
Yes, it´s more than one user. It´s more "if 90% of all will use it".

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Wouldn't you agree, that this alone is a mass-market"
Absolutely not. In marketing you would try to reach this target groups at their specific places (here on the cow f ex), not with outdoor posters etc.

But this whole marketing discussion "should Adobe, or should they not…" is a bit misplaced here, or?

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "you can't dismiss that Adobe have a sweet spot with many tutorials, great places to get help and access to freelancers who knows how to use it."
I can. Really. Whenever I searched for help at an Adobe Product, I was faster by browsing the web, than searching at Adobe help. I tried that at while, but this horrible help-system is that misleading and pumped up, dozends of videos (of which you don´t know if they will fit your needs), you can try to limit your search to a specific App and 2 clicks later you are in Nirwana…
Yes, a newcomer might find some tutorials through first steps. May be. But for more specific information it´s a full catastrophe.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "But how about all the people who gives their time to charities, NGO's, churches, family businesses - do they not have place with Adobe"
In my experience, for exactly these target groups, 800€ or 700€ (for the private version) are hard stuff. Especially if you think of, that most of them have access to MS office or less professional alternatives.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 9, 2015 at 12:11:52 am

[Rainer Schubert] "A single App here in Germany is 24€/mth (only for private use and obviously more than in UK), the complete Cloud is 69,99€/mth f. professional use (= 840€/y).
(Private version is 59,49€/mth = 714€/yr)"


This is simply not a true representation of the facts.
A INDIVIDUAL USER (not private!) license for Muse (single app) in Germany starts from 17.84 Euro!

I am unable to find any documentation on the Adobe website that makes a difference between your "private version" and "professional version" as in what one does with, and is allowed to do with the Adobe CC. I.e. your "private" costings also works for a professional wishing to use the package.

[Rainer Schubert] "[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "How do you define a mass-market"
To my knowledge of marketing: A mass-market product is somewhat nearby everybody is the target group for.
Products like cell-phones (not the high-class ones), most food, etc.
Products, that TV Spots make sense for.
Yes, it´s more than one user. It´s more "if 90% of all will use it"."


And; you are not going to get 90% of the world's population to use Lightroom, Muse or other packages before you start advertising it to them - be careful that you don't end up sounding like the person arguing that the car would never replace the horse, or IBM man who said that computers would never take off. Even mobile phones used to be for the few.
Photoshop Touch for the iPad is £7.99
Photoshop Express for iPhone & iPad starts from: FREE!
If you search Android, guess what, you'll find them there too.

So from that perspective I ask you again to consider: "How do you define a mass-market" and please do so in the context of Adobe.

[Rainer Schubert] "[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "you can't dismiss that Adobe have a sweet spot with many tutorials, great places to get help and access to freelancers who knows how to use it."
I can. Really. Whenever I searched for help at an Adobe Product, I was faster by browsing the web, than searching at Adobe help. I tried that at while, but this horrible help-system is that misleading and pumped up, dozends of videos (of which you don´t know if they will fit your needs), you can try to limit your search to a specific App and 2 clicks later you are in Nirwana…
Yes, a newcomer might find some tutorials through first steps. May be. But for more specific information it´s a full catastrophe."


If you read my comment again, I am sure that you will acknowledge that you confirmed what I actually said: "that Adobe have a sweet spot with many tutorials, great places to get help and access to freelancers who knows how to use it."
There are plenty of people making money out of giving initial free support for Adobe CC products, without Adobe getting involved. That IMHO is a good thing.

[Rainer Schubert] "[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "But how about all the people who gives their time to charities, NGO's, churches, family businesses - do they not have place with Adobe"
In my experience, for exactly these target groups, 800€ or 700€ (for the private version) are hard stuff. Especially if you think of, that most of them have access to MS office or less professional alternatives."


Again, you have not got your facts straight - Adobe offers a very good incentive to organizations who are using Adobe CC to do good with in that they can get it at the same price as academic discounted software.
http://www.adobe.com/uk/education/nonprofit-eligibility-guide.html

As I said in the earlier post, you really need to try out the Adobe CC. If you after 30 days don't like it, fine. It will have cost you nothing, but at least you will be discussing from a point of real knowledge.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 9, 2015 at 2:32:01 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Mar 10, 2015 at 1:07:25 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "This is simply not a true representation of the facts"
Sorry - a mistake of mine. I had a look at Adobe.com/de and saw the "single application" prices which are highlighted with 23,79€/mth. The first 3 apps I tried, are all at that price (and I didn´t try longer). You are right, if I choose Muse (for private use) in the poppup it´s only 17,84/mth. But what means "only" (that´s 214,08 €/yr). Sorry for that.


[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "are not going to get 90% of the world's population to use Lightroom, Muse or other packages before you start advertising it to them"
Never said. But I wouldn´t spend a TV Spot for Dreamweaver at best Evening Times. I would advertise at special places (Web-Developer forums, etc.). Advertisements at Mass-Market Channels only make sense for Mass-Market products (like toothpaste or dish liquid).

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Photoshop Touch for the iPad is £7.99"
I don´t have the need to run PS on my iPad. I can´t use that for any professional work. I would do so for some private jokes, but that´s all. So these mobile Apps of Adobe have to sit in a row with some Apps a iStore which are all in a price-segment far below this - here discussed - so called cloud.
But you are right: This kind of App is near to be a mass-market article.
But I wonder, if it´s that lucky, to take the same name "Photoshop" for the iPad Version & the professional PC-Version.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "hat Adobe have a sweet spot with many tutorials, great places to get help and access to freelancers who knows how to use it."
I don´t see, that it´s different with other applications. You will get tutorials for nearby every App at the web. By the developers, Lydia, Video2brain, here at the cow or the rest of the internet-community. Yes, there are tons of video at Adobe.com, but the "help" button is meanwhile more a joke.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Adobe offers a very good incentive to organizations"
May be. If so, it´s a good thing. Until the organizations will not longer be supported one day & will like to open their documents. You also referenced "family business" at your original post - and that was of what I thought of. Sorry again and again.

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "As I said in the earlier post, you really need to try out the Adobe CC. If you after 30 days don't like it, fine."
Answered already in the other post: I don´t test, what I never will rent.
The products themselves are good - no question.
And I used them for decades (and helped Adobe to become that monopolist, which can act that aggressive, and against the will of a many users today).
But I will never spend a cent to Applications, that will take my file access away, if I stop renting them.
As long as alternatives are available: NEVER.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 9, 2015 at 9:53:19 pm
Last Edited By Mads Nybo Jørgensen on Mar 9, 2015 at 9:58:33 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "If you use this so called cloud for professional (commercial) use, you have to use the Team-License (I called it professional - sorry again). The offers at Adobe for "Individuals" are for private use. For business you have to order the Team license complete (which is 69,99 mth) or a single App for 29,99 €/mth - Also muse costs 29,99 €/mth if you want to use it commercial and as a team license). Wonder if anyone will verify that (today), but it´s regarding to their EULA."

This is simply not true. Why are you spreading these false statements. All you have to do is ask Adobe text support, which I just did about the use of "Individuals" subscriptions?
"Adobe: at 21:33:38
You can use it for personal use and professional use also."

Just in case you missed it: You have been wrong about pricing, usage rights, access to old files, marketing to a wider audience and so forth. We can't get any further in this debate if one side is relying on misinformation and fabrication, rather than facts.

Anyway, I am in the middle of learning Dreamweaver CC, which is a much more enjoyable task than trying to move a mountain of wrongly placed blocks.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 9, 2015 at 11:12:07 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Mar 9, 2015 at 11:12:52 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "Just in case you missed it: You have been wrong about pricing, usage rights, access to old files, marketing to a wider audience and so forth"
Ups. Sorry again. I remembered a discussion at the Adobe Service Site, when I made my statement. Indeed, as a one person business you can use the individual licenses too. If you are so. I read just at Adobe and have to say you are right. The problem I remembered was, that you need team licenses if more than one person uses these licenses, at the same time or not. Because the software is licensed to a individual. And strictly to law you can´t give this right to another person. This is different with the team licenses. And so an individual license wouldn´t make sense for me. Sorry - I really was wrong a second time.
I corrected my statement regarding to the price of muse.
After all, I don´t do so in view of Access to files. Which is at least the absolute NoGo for me.
(The marketing discussion can be seen in many ways & isn´t something to discuss here).
And so forth I can´t see.
But, if I where you, I wouldn´t try to move me to the cloud. That would be more difficult than to move a rock of whatever ;)
Whish, you really can enjoy learning dreamweaver & the sites you build with it.
All the best for that and everything else.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 10, 2015 at 2:55:06 pm

Hey Rainer,

Fair enough.

[Rainer Schubert] "The problem I remembered was, that you need team licenses if more than one person uses these licenses, at the same time or not. Because the software is licensed to a individual. And strictly to law you can´t give this right to another person. This is different with the team licenses. And so an individual license wouldn´t make sense for me."

True! This is a point of contention as the online Adobe support seems to be of the opinion that every license, even for the SME's, is for the person licensed, rather than the work-station/company. So in effect, you cannot hire a freelancer to work on your project(s) without taking out a subscription for them, or hire freelancers that have their own Adobe CC license. Not sure how Adobe will ever be able to enforce this?

However, when I asked what they do about large scale customers, such as the BBC - what happens then? Is it even possible in a busy program department with many freelancers/temp workers to manage licensees on a minute by minute basis? I was given a phone number for their sales team...

Question is: Would they turn "the blind eye" and ignore who works on a license, in which case Adobe might as well modify their terms.
Having said that: There are integral tools within CC that one may not want to share, such as Behance and Story CC.

[Rainer Schubert] "After all, I don´t do so in view of Access to files. Which is at least the absolute NoGo for me."

This I am not sure that we will ever agree on as I would have the source materials and for a cost could always open the master files. But I understand and respect your viewpoint.

Let's close it here.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 8:30:56 pm

it makes it seem that they are desparate for subscription numbers and income. i 29.95 is better than nothing.

ricardo marty


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 4, 2015 at 11:33:15 pm

Well said, and I think they need it.


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Ho Mandarin
Re: Nothing has changed - including never ending discounts
on Mar 5, 2015 at 11:20:53 am

Thank you for opening my eyes.


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