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simon patrick
NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 28, 2018 at 12:52:37 am

Hi
I'm looking to revamp our storage options - currently we have a QNAP 859pro+ (8x2tb in raid 6, 11tb used) and a QNAP853 (8x2tb raid 6, 8tb used) connected via ethernet network to mac g5s and macbook pro laptops. All files are stored on the 859pro with the 853 used as a backup.

We will be adding a storage unit which allows the option of having offsite backup via internet - we have 100/30mb access but could get gigabit.

But we'll also hope to be doing more overseas photography and design work so would like to be able to add overseas access from a macbook (photos are currently uploaded to smugmug).

Thinking of adding a qnap832x with 8x 8tb or 6tb disks in raid 6 format (36-48tb) to use in the main office - 4-6 people accessing across ethernet mainly photos and graphic design, no video as yet but if possible would like to future proof that option in the upgrade. Then move the existing data to the new machine and use the old qnaps as offsite backup.

As a creative person i'm not great with linear thinking - have i missed something?
How do i incorporate secure overseas access via vpn from a macbook pro? without risk of compromising the storage and the rest of the network?
Thank you for your time and thoughts.


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Bob Zelin
Re: NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 28, 2018 at 2:24:17 am

replies below from Bob Zelin -

I'm looking to revamp our storage options - currently we have a QNAP 859pro+ (8x2tb in raid 6, 11tb used) and a QNAP853 (8x2tb raid 6, 8tb used) connected via ethernet network to mac g5s and macbook pro laptops. All files are stored on the 859pro with the 853 used as a backup.

REPLY - Hi Simon -
I am looking at the QNAP website. I do not see a QNAP 859_ pro or a QNAP 853 as current models. I have been dealing with QNAP since mid 2015. How old are the models. And a Mac G5 ? Are you kidding me ? The Mac Pro was released in 2006. PLEASE tell me that you are not actually using a pre 2005 MX g5 to make a living. A child in high school would not be using a Mac G5.




We will be adding a storage unit which allows the option of having offsite backup via internet - we have 100/30mb access but could get gigabit.


REPLY - IF you could update your operating system to QTS 4.3.4 ( I have no idea if you can do this with the obsolete QNAP 859 or QNAP 853) - you would run QNAP Hybrid Backup Sync, and use the RTRR (real time remote replication) to backup from QNAP # 1 to QNAP # 2. In order to accomplish this, you would use a router that had the ability to open up ports (like a Synology RT2600ac) so that port 8899 was open, to allow for remote access over the internet.
1) can you even update the firmware of your QNAP's to the modern operating system, and 2) are you willing to purchase a modern router that will allow you to do backups over the internet.


But we'll also hope to be doing more overseas photography and design work so would like to be able to add overseas access from a macbook (photos are currently uploaded to smugmug).



Thinking of adding a qnap832x with 8x 8tb or 6tb disks in raid 6 format (36-48tb) to use in the main office - 4-6 people accessing across ethernet mainly photos and graphic design, no video as yet but if possible would like to future proof that option in the upgrade. Then move the existing data to the new machine and use the old qnaps as offsite backup.


REPLY - the QNAP TS-832x is a brand new unit that uses the horrible Amazon Anapurna processors. Please tell me why you are choosing the absolutely cheapest QNAP storage solution instead of a more professional solution from QNAP (or another brand). You want to future proof, but you want to spend the absolute least amount of money ?

here is the QNAP TS-832X on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/TS-832X-8G-US-High-performance-Network-Hardware-Encr...
$932 is your "big investment" in your company for a high performance box ?

As a creative person i'm not great with linear thinking - have i missed something?
How do i incorporate secure overseas access via vpn from a macbook pro? without risk of compromising the storage and the rest of the network?

REPLY -
within the last several days, I have seen multiple posts that seem absolutely ridiculous. Everyone wants to do everything, and wants to spend absolutely NO money in making this happen. As a creative person - NO - AS A BUSINESS PERSON - you need to INVEST in your business to be able to generate income. I can easily setup
QNAP QVPN for you so that other people can access your QNAP, but 1) you must have a router that can open ports easily so I can have remote access to the QNAP, and 2) the security of your network is based on the security of your passwords. If I have a user name of "admin" and a password of "admin" then I can hack into your NAS, but if you create secure names and password, and separate folders for your freelancers, then all of this can be accomplished using the QNAP (and a professional router like the Synology RT2600ac).

Of course, you need to HIRE SOMEONE to accomplish this for you.

AND think about having a modern QNAP that can accept the current firmware updates to allow for Hybrid Backup Sync to work.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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simon patrick
Re: NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 28, 2018 at 6:11:02 pm

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your comments and insight.

I only found this forum while researching an aspect of the plan.

I was originally planning to use the 831x as it seems to do all I needed, but the local store in HK said it had been upgraded to the 832x and the DDR4 ram seemed a good choice for wider data throughput. It wasn't a budget decision, as much as it had the features I was looking for and a low power usage and low temperature compared to other boxes which seemed to add unnecessary bells and whistles likes speakers, usb, thunderbolt etc.

As for the amazon processors, I was sceptical but there were few reviews for the 832x and it seemed a solid next step from the 831x which has lots of good reviews. But have learnt not to automatically assume 'intel inside' means that it's good.

Which 8 disc box would you recommend instead?

The 859pro is from 2010, but doesn't support 4.3.4 (only up 4.2.6) which seems to be needed for a lot of the new features like qsync (looks like a great app, does it deliver in the real world?), and it doesn't appear to support bigger drives than 4tb. The other problem is you can't expand the raid pool - hence the need to buy a new box (to backup the data), before replacing the current 2tb drives and relegate the 859 to offsite backup/duplication.

The 853 does appear to support 4.3.4 and 8tb drives so can offer duplication and backup.

I'm fine with buying a router to accomplish my needs and will look at your suggestion and look to understand more how it works - ethernet has been fine speed wise, but having 10GBe compatibility/functionality seems to be a good future proofing idea.

You mention a budget of only $900 but forget the 16x 8tb drives (8 for the new box and 8 for the 853) which adds another $4,000 to the bill. I am budget flexible, but everything spent has to be earned and sadly digital doesn't pay anywhere near as well as print used to.

I do look to invest in the business. We still use the G5 because of some custom bi-lingual software that makes part of the job very easy - and because it just works. While our 2008 Macpro workhorses with ssd's are still very fast and productive.

When we hopefully get bigger we will undoubtedly look for external help, but part of the reason for trying to work it out ourselves this time is it makes us look at the processes and understand what we need to do with the hardware but also what we have to do as staff, freelancers etc to achieve what we need and the processes and workflows we need to change/adjust.
Thank you again for your input


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Bob Zelin
Re: NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 28, 2018 at 6:47:31 pm

Hi Simon -
replies below -

Simon writes -
I was originally planning to use the 831x as it seems to do all I needed, but the local store in HK said it had been upgraded to the 832x and the DDR4 ram seemed a good choice for wider data throughput. It wasn't a budget decision, as much as it had the features I was looking for and a low power usage and low temperature compared to other boxes which seemed to add unnecessary bells and whistles likes speakers, usb, thunderbolt etc.

REPLY - for data, the TS-831x works fine, and I am sure that for data, the TS-832x works fine. If you are simply using it to transfer files over the internet - nothing will be as slow as your internet connection, so it's fine. But to actually work off the TS-831x will be a struggle. While I have not tried the TS-832x, based on the fact that it has the Annapurna processors, instead of Intel or AMD, I ASSUME, that it will be as slow as the TS-831x. This is my assumption. I have not tried the TS-832x. I suggest the TVS-873e which is sold for an almost identical price. For 10G connection, you need the optional QXG-10G1T card, which is very inexpensive. I have personally tested this unit and it is very good. On this forum below, you will see a user who recently purchased the TVS-873e, and he is complaining that he is STILL getting slow speeds. This user has not contacted me directly, and asked me to log into his system, so I cannot tell you exactly why he is getting slow speeds on the TVS-873e, but I assure you this is a good unit. Of course, there are better QNAPs, for more money, as well.


Simon writes -
As for the amazon processors, I was sceptical but there were few reviews for the 832x and it seemed a solid next step from the 831x which has lots of good reviews. But have learnt not to automatically assume 'intel inside' means that it's good.

Which 8 disc box would you recommend instead?

REPLY - for a low budget box, the TVS-873e is very good. If you need a 10G connection, you must purchase the QNAP QXG-10G1T option card for this unit. As I stated above, there is another user on this forum who is complaing about the poor speeds of this unit, but he has not contacted me, so I cannot tell you why he is unhappy with his unit.


SIMON WRITES -
The 859pro is from 2010, but doesn't support 4.3.4 (only up 4.2.6) which seems to be needed for a lot of the new features like qsync (looks like a great app, does it deliver in the real world?), and it doesn't appear to support bigger drives than 4tb. The other problem is you can't expand the raid pool - hence the need to buy a new box (to backup the data), before replacing the current 2tb drives and relegate the 859 to offsite backup/duplication.

REPLY - while you can create a "thick volume" with the modern QTS, I almost never do this. To achieve maximum speed, I create a single static volume, and when I add an additional box, you just create another static volume, and this mounts on your desktop as "QNAP1" and "QNAP2". You can certainly create a single "thick volume" storage pool to have only one volume mount from the 2 boxes, but I rarely do this, because of speed and safety (in case of failure - I like having the boxes separate). As for drive size, you can install 12 TB Seagate IronWolf or 12 TB WD Pro drives without issue on modern boxes. As for the old boxes - will Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR from QTS 4.3.4 work with your old QTS 4.2.6 Backup Station ? I have no idea. This is like saying "is my Mac OS X Snow Leopard operating system compatible with networking with a new macOS High Sierra system". Why would anyone even think like this ?


SIMON WRITES -
The 853 does appear to support 4.3.4 and 8tb drives so can offer duplication and backup.

REPLY - then it should work. A modern QNAP will not know if it's talking to an "old" QNAP if the OS is the same - particularly if you are simply transferring data with Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR.


Simon Writes -
I'm fine with buying a router to accomplish my needs and will look at your suggestion and look to understand more how it works - ethernet has been fine speed wise, but having 10GBe compatibility/functionality seems to be a good future proofing idea.

REPLY - the only reason to purchase the router is to easily open ports for RTRR (port 8899) or QVPN. Any router can be opened - it's just I don't know how to do most routers. Modern routers like the Synology RT series, or Netgear Nighthawk series are VERY easy to do port forwarding on, and support UPnP function from the QNAP NAS boxes (I am sure that Synology does the same). The only reason to do a router like this is if you want to have the backup QNAP in a distant location, not on your local network. You will have no choice but to either figure out how to open ports on the router that you own, or get an "easy to use" modern router.



Simon Writes -
You mention a budget of only $900 but forget the 16x 8tb drives (8 for the new box and 8 for the 853) which adds another $4,000 to the bill. I am budget flexible, but everything spent has to be earned and sadly digital doesn't pay anywhere near as well as print used to.

REPLY - you are correct. And what is amazing is that the cost of SATA drives cost more money than the actual QNAP box or Synology box. You have to remember that the cost of doing a shared storage system today is cheaper than ever in history - and as you point out - the budgets today are lower than ever in history.



Simon writes -
I do look to invest in the business. We still use the G5 because of some custom bi-lingual software that makes part of the job very easy - and because it just works. While our 2008 Macpro workhorses with ssd's are still very fast and productive.

REPLY - what can I say - I still use my 2009 Mac Pro every day. It works. But the G5 is an antique - pre 2006.


Simon writes -
When we hopefully get bigger we will undoubtedly look for external help, but part of the reason for trying to work it out ourselves this time is it makes us look at the processes and understand what we need to do with the hardware but also what we have to do as staff, freelancers etc to achieve what we need and the processes and workflows we need to change/adjust.

REPLY - I am always available.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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simon patrick
Re: NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 29, 2018 at 5:27:14 pm

Dear Bob

Points noted, thank you
I hadn't seen the 873 - and rightly or wrongly I feel happier with that chipset over the amazon one. The 832x/831x does have two 10Gbe ports though...

Not sure that I need the graphics card and hdmi ports - which seems to be the only difference from between the TS873 and the TVS873e

Have asked Qnap for some benchmarks for the 873 and the 832x - if they supply them will post them here or email them to you.

Regards

Simon


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Bob Zelin
Re: NAS Storage with safe offsite/overseas access
on May 29, 2018 at 7:28:37 pm

I have benchmarks for the TVS-873e -
using a Sonnet Solo 10G on either a thunderbolt 3 iMac or thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pro, you get
550 MB/sec WRITE, and 1000 MB/sec READ as per AJA System Test or Blackmagic Disk Speed Test.
I demonstrated this exact setup at the Maxx Digital booth at NAB 2018. The only variable here is that
I used a QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card, because the new cheaper QXG-10G1T was not available at the time.

This evening, I will work with Mike Jeul to get this system working correctly (he has the TVS-873e with the QXG-10G1T).

I will report back.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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