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QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)

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Hamish Boyd
QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on May 16, 2018 at 1:52:12 am
Last Edited By Hamish Boyd on May 16, 2018 at 1:53:10 am

G'day all. I've forever been snooping around here hoovering up bits of info but been a while since I posted something....

I'm about to push go on NAS upgrade for our 2 edit suites...
And I think I've pretty much read all I can find of what Bob Zelin has said on the matter and has basically shaped everything I've listed here, so this is just a final check list to see if I've missed something...

(Going this route is a bit of a departure for me, in that I'll be doing it myself, but I haven't found a supplier locally that I know of that meddles in QNAP for setup and support apart from online stores selling boxes. So here we go...)

Our edits suites are:
one iMac (2012) about to be upgraded to new 2017 iMac.
1x 2017 MacBook Pro - Call digit breakout box, BM Mini Monitor etc.
and old Mac Pro with a SAS raid attached that we use as a parking bay for projects. Would be good to still make use of this raid for back up or something.

current NAS is a small tree 1Gb system about 5 or so years old. bout 15TB.

NEW SYSTEM PLAN:

QNAP TS-1685 D1521-16G
12 x 10 TB drives (SeaGate Iron Wolf Pro? but I think Bob has said not a fan of Seagate from past experience. Any others? WD Red better? Any sourced real results of who is safer/better now?)
No SSD drives.

2 x Sonnet Solo 10G Thunderbolt 3 to 10 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters

QUESTIONS:
Is system quiet enough to sit under desk in one of the edit suites like my Small Tree NAS?
(won't effect decision to buy just need to plan out space if not. But hopefully it's quiet enough)
Has Anyone tested the Sonnet Solo speeds to QNAP NAS for read/write?

I've read various bits, (mainly Bob's posts) about SMB disabling (I have no idea what that actually is), is this fairly straight forward? If not can any run of the mill IT dude I hire come in to do that if needed?
Think thats it for now.

Many thanks.
Hamish


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Bob Zelin
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on May 16, 2018 at 1:23:05 pm

1) the Seagate Ironwolf drives will work just fine. I continue to use HGST NAS drives, or WD RED Pro (7200 RPM) drives. WD Gold series are excellent too. Just don't use Seagate Constellation drives. But yes, if you want the Ironwolf drives, they will work as well.

2) your old Mac Pro can have a Sonnet Presto 10Gbase-T card installed in it, and this can be connected to your shared storage system as well.

3) you have not specified a switch. You MUST have a 10G Network switch that is dedicated for this project. IF there are only a few computers, the cheapest way to do this is with the new QNAP QSW-1208-8C, which is an 8 port 10G switch for $589 US, and yes, it's available now. IF you use someone like me to remote in, to setup your system, a better choice is the Netgear XS708T, because this switch can be web managed. This means that I could set it up over the internet. The QNAP switch is unmanaged (it's plug and play).

4) is the QNAP quiet - yes it is. It's very quiet. But it does speak to you. It has a little speaker in it, and when it gets full, or a drive fails, or you are booting it up, it will speak to you in English. I am not making this up.

5) with this QNAP, and an 2017 iMac, 2017 MacBook Pro or 2017 iMac Pro, the Sonnet Solo 10G will do between
900 - 1000 MB/sec both READ and WRITE. YES - I have tested this, both at NAB 2018, and I have the first one installed right now at Universal Studios Orlando.

I will be happy to assist you. All you have to do is email me.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Hamish Boyd
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on May 16, 2018 at 11:17:10 pm

ah yes! The switcher.. um about that...

allow me to ask a stupid Newbie question about it that I don't quite get. I'll put it here on forum for other numpties like me to find in time.

If the QNAP has two 10Gb ports and 4 1gb ports in it. why do I need a switcher? Can't I just directly plug the computers into them?

And the other question in my head I've had for ages about a switcher is...

If a switcher goes into say one 10GB port then doesn't it split that bandwidth out across however many ports the switcher has and therefore slows speeds down?
I might have this all upside down, but yeah a question I've been meaning to ask for a while...

Bob, I'd love for you to set us up. I'm based in Sydney Australia, I assume that doesn't matter if you can dial in over the webs. I will get in touch with you directly.

(Many thanks for your detailed responses here and everywhere else I've read)


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Bob Zelin
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on May 17, 2018 at 2:31:35 am

yes, like most companies that you purchase from, I use http://www.teamviewer.com to remote into your systems.
I have done this in Australia for
Rogue Creative in Sydney, Platinum HD in Queensland, and The Solid State in Sydney.
The most recent of these was for Rogue, who has a TVS-1282T, with 4 computers. They are using a Netgear
XS708T 8 port 10G switch on their system. The entire setup was done via Teamviewer. If you email me, I will send you his contact information, and you can ask how he likes his system. It was setup on Feb 14th, 2018.

Can you plug directly into the back of the QNAP - yes you can. Here is how it works and this is why using a switch is easier.
You assign a static IP address for Eth 5 (the first 10G port on the QNAP ) to 192.168.2.3, and the computer that plugs into this directly is assigned to 192.168.2.4. For Eth 6, (the second 10G port on the QNAP) - you assign this port to
192.168.3.3, and the client computer static IP to 192.168.3.4 (this is a different subnet). Now, you only have four 1G ports left, so you will not get 10G speeds on these. The third computer port on the QNAP will be 192.168.4.3
and the client computer (1G only) will be 192.168.4.4. You must keep track of exactly which computer plugs into exactly what port on the back of the QNAP, or it will not connect. But yes, this does work.

If you simply purchase a switch, you don't have to go thru all this suffering. You assign a single static IP to the 10G port, plug into the switch, and then all the computers just plug into the switch, and they are all on the same subnet. You don't have to worry about which computer goes into which port.

The idea of using a single port per computer is a fantasy, because you only have so much bandwidth from the drives. 8 drives will give you about 1000 MB/sec total bandwidth after RAID 5. A Sonnet Solo 10G connected to a thunderbolt 3 iMac will give you a 1000 MB/sec connection. So if you have two computers, both with Sonnet Solo 10G's on them - guess what - they both can't get 1000 MB/sec, because the drives only can produce 1000 MB/sec total aggregate bandwidth.
In real life, you will be doing 100 - 200 MB/sec per client while working in 4K, and less than this with 1080i or 720p HD editing.

The switch will make your life easier, but if every penny counts, then we can plug in directly. But only 2 guys can get the 10G speeds.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Hamish Boyd
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on May 17, 2018 at 7:34:25 am

Thanks Bob, that's good info...
righto I will get in touch via email. Haven't ordered anything yet, and just barrelling through few work deadlines at moment. But we'll get on it shortly.


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Hamish Boyd
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jun 20, 2018 at 12:56:22 am

Just an update on this for those snooping around for info.....

We ordered the system as above and I made a rare smart decision and got Bob Zelin to set it up remotely for us here in Sydney Australia. Best money I've spent.
Seriously we didn't get into this gig making pretty pictures to then learn IP addresses and Ports, and blah blah blah ...
and we all think for the most part we can muddle through these things. But watching Bob set it up, and set it up FOR POST PRODUCTION WORK (see I'm using all caps like Bob now) made me realise I would have lost weeks fiddling through it myself. And never really being sure of it.
I now have a smoking fast system, these QNAPs for the price and what you get are ridiculous, and pretty damn happy.

So thank you Bob. I will buy a switcher in time I promise. (buy a switcher people) ☺


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Robert Broussard
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jul 6, 2018 at 7:58:36 am

Bob

[Bob Zelin] "The switch will make your life easier, but if every penny counts, then we can plug in directly. But only 2 guys can get the 10G speeds. "

Bob, I recently bought a netgear GS728TXp Poe switch with 4 10gigabit uplinks that I think can be used directly. I don’t like the switch that much. It’s loud. The software seems clunky and dated. And the POE part was confusing... anyway, I thought having this switch is one of the building blocks to having a proper 10g network with QNAP. So, I’m interested in replacing my 1gig switch with a ubiquity UniFi switch. I suppose I need to make sure I get one with a 10gb uplink, yes? Have you used any UniFi products with FCPX installs? Would the wan port from your isp plug into the 10gig switch?

Thanks,

R



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Bob Zelin
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jul 6, 2018 at 11:42:39 am

why would you buy a POE switch. The switches I specify are the Netgear XS708T, XS716T, XS728T and XS748T.
And if you have no money, and only need a few ports (8) you get the new QNAP QSW-1208-8C for under $600.
If you need only 1G speeds with a 10G uplink, you get the Netgear S3300-28X. I have no idea of why you purchased a POE switch.

If you have a small company, the QNAP QSW-1208-8C is perfect. Its tiny, and it's silent. And if you think that you are going to use ONE switch for both your phone system, and your shared storage system - well, you are on drugs, and you should find another career (or hire someone to do this for you). It's amazing how much money can be wasted when not following the correct advice.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Robert Broussard
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jul 6, 2018 at 3:32:50 pm

The purpose of the Poe is to accommodate Poe devices (AP, ipCam, remote IoT switch) on the gig network and where this devices are on there own vlan. The 10g uplink removes the potential bottleneck from many gig hosts trying to get to shared storage on the 10g switch. All of the heavy lifting happens on the 10g switch where the NAS and the 10g clients are plugged in— Is this not your very plan?

So, have you tried any Ubiquiti UniFi or EdgeMax 10gig switches? As I mentioned above, I was not impressed with the 3300 series Netgear.

R



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Bob Zelin
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jul 6, 2018 at 3:58:33 pm

hello Robert -
you are on a professional video forum. I work with professional video companies. Since the dawn of video shared storage (AVID Unity) and Transoft (I forgot !), you have a dedicated isolated network for your shared storage. If you want to run POE cameras for security (what does this have to do with Creative Cow, or the professional video market) - you buy a dedicated POE switch, and plug in your cameras, and run the QNAP QVR software. Your POE switch would plug into one of the 1G ports on your QNAP. Why would you do this on your professional video shared storage solution ?

As for your IoT switch - are you trying to turn the lights on and off in your office with the same switch you are using for your professional video shared storage ? Are you controlling it with your Amazon Echo ? Is this a serious post or are you just fishing.

If you are looking for a low cost 24 port 1G switch that is managed, that has 10G ports on it, the Netgear S3300-28X is a wonderful choice. As for use with security cameras and IoT - I really don't care. This is a professional video forum, not a game or a hobby. If I am in the security business, I can purchase a Netgear GS724TP for $233 on
Amazon, that will supply 190 watts of power. If you can't afford $589 for an 8 port QNAP 10G switch, and $233 for a 24 port POE switch - well, I really have no interest in answering any more of your questions. I work for countless charities and Christian organizations, and ALL OF THEM have professional equipment.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Robert Broussard
Re: QNAP edit suites upgrade plan- sourced from Bob Zelin's posts. :)
on Jul 7, 2018 at 4:06:12 am

Hi Bob,

[Bob Zelin] "Why would you do this on your professional video shared storage solution ? "

Sorry for the confusion, the POE devices and associated traffic are on a separate VLAN and no security cameras will be using the NAS for any reason. The only reason why the Gig switch (which happens to be POE) gets mentioned is that there are more than a few Gigabit computers that will have access to the NAS and I was concerned that the uplink port (to the 10G switch) might get overwhelmed if I didn't get the 3300 series switch. In my original post, I was jut pointing out what I didn't like about the Netgear GS728TXP and that I enjoyed my experiences with other Enterprise level gear such as: Ubiquity UNIFI and the EdgeMax line and wondered if you'd discovered the same amazing software. Bob, I just dropped $1,100 on a gig switch, I'm not afraid to spend a few bucks.

I appreciate your feedback and contributions to this forum--again, sorry for the confusion. I should probably not post things after taking Ambien. ☺

Robert



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