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QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)

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Nikos Papadopoulos
QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 5, 2018 at 7:56:43 pm

Hey everyone from chilly Athens!

A problem with thunderbolt 3 and FCP X is driving me nuts and was looking towards your wisdom and experiences to help track this issue down. Connected to the NAS via Thunderbolt 3 (40G cable/SMB 3), and trying to create/name/delete a new folder inside an FCPX event, or even attempting playback (normal HD H.264 files from a Canon 5Dmk3) I get beachballs everywhere. This is on a fresh install of High Sierra 10.13.3 and on the Macbook Pro 15" 2017 with Touchbar. Library and footage is on the NAS. When mounting to the same exact location via a normal 1Gbps Ethernet cable (and smb 3 again) everything runs smooth as butter! I've created a short video of the problem. Perhaps with your knowledge you can help in figuring out a solution. I've tried almost every trick in the book. Is this the case for you as well via T3? (In the video when I say SD footage I mean HD ☺ )

Video of the problem:





Passion and knowledge put to work
nick314.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 5, 2018 at 11:09:27 pm

Just kill me, Nick. I told you to purchase a Promise SanLink3 for 10G connection ($299 US), but you just won't do it.
You will sit there for weeks, re format your Mac, jump up and down, and do everything possible so that you don't have to buy the thunderbolt 3 to 10G adaptor. I HAVE AN IDEA - spend $6000, and get an iMac Pro. It comes for free with a 10G port (from Aquantia) and then you don't need the adaptor, and then everything will work.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Nikos Papadopoulos
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 5, 2018 at 11:24:04 pm

Hey Bob,

There are a couple of points to be made. First it is to get this system working - if that means support tickets at QNAP so be it, I have the patience. I could have spend 1000€ less on a non-thunderbolt version and gotten three adapters but I have this perversion that I like to use what I paid for.

Second is to figure out what's wrong with the T3 connection. Sanlink 3 won't cover my needs due to the slow write speeds. Sonnet has issues with High Sierra. And people that are using sonnet are running into the same exact issues, so it seems those adapters won't fix this - don't forget FCPX 10.4 can also be at fault.

As I already have a 40G Thunderbolt 3 connection I'd like to use that since it suits my needs. I have not reformatted so, that's that. Figuring out what's wrong can be a learning experience so how about we solve this problem together! Please chime in if you have any ideas on where to look. Cheers!

I seem to be getting somewhere by tinkering in sysctl.conf with these settings.
net.inet.tcp.win_scale_factor=8
net.inet.tcp.autorcvbufmax=33554432
net.inet.tcp.autosndbufmax=33554432
net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0

kern.ipc.somaxconn=2048
net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
net.inet.tcp.win_scale_factor=4
net.inet.tcp.mssdflt=1448
net.inet.tcp.v6mssdflt=1412
net.inet.tcp.msl=15000
net.inet.tcp.always_keepalive=0
net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize=20
net.inet.tcp.local_slowstart_flightsize=9
net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
net.inet.icmp.icmplim=50
net.inet.tcp.sendspace=1042560
net.inet.tcp.recvspace=1042560

and nsmb.conf with these settings:
[default]
signing_required=no
dir_cache_max_cnt=0
streams=yes
notify_off=yes
port445=no_netbios
unix extensions = no
veto files = /._*/.DS_Store/

It seems to be working for a while, but something is using the QNAP drives in the background and no processes in the QNAP admin verify this - even with all connections disconnected from the NAS. Qsirch disabled and ofcourse no RAID resyncs happening.

Passion and knowledge put to work
nick314.com


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Nikos Papadopoulos
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 5, 2018 at 11:30:53 pm

Also please know that we don't have an easy way to return products for refunds here in Greece. Store attitudes are far from the US ideal that client comes first, in fact, its the exact opposite. So I can't just buy one, try it and return it.

Passion and knowledge put to work
nick314.com


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58:34 am

While I don't have any direct experience with the TVS-1282T3 unit, I've seen some older Qnap T2 units in operation.

In general, it seems that these Qnap NAS boxes work best over network connections like GigE or 10GigE. I understand that since you've spent some extra getting a T3 device, you would like it to work over T3. But the Qnap TVS-1282T3 is not like any other T3 RAID like the one from Areca or G-Tech which are pure RAID boxes. Those work great over T2 or T3.

The Qnap, implements a T3 connection like a network connection and that's where it isn't very good. That has something to do with how the Mac implements network (SMB) over Thunderbolt (2 or 3). You may, with a bit of tinkering and support, eventually make it work over T3 but that is likely to not be as stable as a 10GigE or even a GigE connection.

So, I'm with Bob as far as simply connecting a 10GigE adapter and getting on with it.

I too am in a country where buying these boxes and returning them is not an easy option, so I know what that feels like.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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alex gardiner
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 12, 2018 at 12:52:14 pm

At a guess the kind of bursty/unpredictable performance you see stems from the fact that there is no dedicated hardware handling offload, as would be the case with a real network card.

I could be very wrong, but that seems likely.


PS. Tuning something like sysctl is "evil". This is a good description (originally from an old ZFS tuning discussion). The idea is that the defaults should already be right and if they're not the problem is likely elsewhere.

"Tuning is often evil and should rarely be done.

First, consider that the default values are set by the people who know the most about the effects of the tuning on the software that they supply. If a better value exists, it should be the default. While alternative values might help a given workload, it could quite possibly degrade some other aspects of performance. Occasionally, catastrophically so.

Over time, tuning recommendations might become stale at best or might lead to performance degradations. Customers are leery of changing a tuning that is in place and the net effect is a worse product than what it could be. Moreover, tuning enabled on a given system might spread to other systems, where it might not be warranted at all.

Nevertheless, it is understood that customers who carefully observe their own system may understand aspects of their workloads that cannot be anticipated by the defaults. In such cases, the tuning information below may be applied, provided that one works to carefully understand its effects"


The original link for this is dead (old Solaris stuff), but you get the idea.

Storage Engineer
alex@indiestor.com


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Lutz Leonhardt
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 13, 2018 at 7:57:25 am

hi Nick

maybe you can contact these people from Rise and Shine Films in swtzerland. They have the same qnap and as it seems no problems with it using thunderbolt 3.

12157_riseandshinefilms.webloc.zip


12156_qnaptvs1282t3thunderbolt3nasreviewteil13unboxingundsetupenglischyoutu...

best regards

Lutz


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Nikos Papadopoulos
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 13, 2018 at 10:58:21 am

Lutz I just came back from Switzerland! Could have gone by!

Here is the bigger issue. The slowdowns that are cause are also happening on a similar system with the Sonnet 10GbE. The SanLink over T3 has a terrible write speed. This doesn't give me the confidence to buy a 10G adapter, and being in Greece, I have no option to return it if it doesn't work. Other people are using T3 successfully, so for now, I'm looking into that direction.

Passion and knowledge put to work
nick314.com


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Lutz Leonhardt
Re: QNAP FCP X Slowdown/Beachball Issue via Thunderbolt 3 & SMB 3 (TVS-1282T3)
on Feb 13, 2018 at 11:21:38 am

I hope you'll find a solution


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