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For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount

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pekin azer
For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 8:12:23 am

Hi all... With the 2,5K version the MFT mount helps to use an adaptor that solves the PL mount cine lens usage.

But, the 4K has an EF MOUNT. So the cam has a S35 sensor but, the lenses are for full frame photo? This is a big issue because of the crop factor.

İf the 4K version had a NEX MOUNT, any nex to PL adaptor would be usable. The S35 sensor would of been happier with proper cine 35mm lenses. Any thoughts? İdeas?

Thanks,
Pekin

You are what you make others feel.


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pekin azer
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 8:34:59 am

PS: Ofcourse a PL mount version would of been a lot better... We wouldn't need an adaptor at all.

P.

You are what you make others feel.


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 2:42:39 pm

Well the problem with the E mount is that Sony owns it, unlike Micro Four-Thirds which is a coalition mainly led by Panasonic and Olypmus. For Blackmagic to use the E mount they would have to license it from Sony. The biggest problem that I would foresee about that though is that the Blackmagic Cinema Camera/4K/Pocket Cameras are competitors of Sony products in ways that it is not to Panasonic and certainly Olympus.

Imagine if while Sony was trying to push the F55, a 14 stop, Super35, 4K cinema camera with Global Shutter, that comes in at a starting price of $28,990, they were simultaneously supplying the mount to a 12 stop, Super35, 4K cinema camera also with Global Shutter that cost a mere $4,000.

I suspect that a lot of people would think long and hard about how much they need those 2 stops. That money buys a lot of lights and grip equipment. Certainly enough to light for the difference between those two stops.

As per the issue of the Canon EF mount and being unable to put on an adequate PL adapter...

If you ask me, it looks like the assumption by Blackmagic is that those who are buying the 4K Production Camera probably are more the Canon DSLR crowd who passed on the original BMCC because of the crop factor. These people have Canon lenses already and now they have a sensor that can use them reasonably well, if not properly in the case of EF-S lenses or for the Super35 frame.

Add to that the fact that most new cine lenses that are coming out are available in multiple mounts. For instance the Compact Primes, the Cine Xenars, even Rokinon/Bower/Samyang. And then the Canon CN-E primes are exclusively available in the EF mount. Blackmagic thinks that there is enough cine glass out there to work with the EF mount on the Production Camera and in most cases they're right. The EF mount also keeps the cost of operation down for the user as the mount is more accessible to less expensive lenses. For the few instances when one may be using Master Primes, Ultra Primes, Cookes, or Summilux-C's, that means a higher budget, and it also typically means rental. Which means that the renter would have the choice of any number of cinema cameras ranging from RED, to Alexa, to Sony.

The Blackmagic Production Camera in my opinion fills a middle ground that had been left gapingly open. It is a relatively low cost of entry that as a system is flexible ENOUGH to do almost anything you need it to. When the budget calls for more, there are lenses and cameras that offer more.

Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3


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Marco Solorio
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 3:35:20 pm

I think you're on target with all the right answers, Matthew. But I have thought about this before myself... why not use Sony E mount on the 4K Production Camera instead of EF? Or even on the BMCC for that matter? There wouldn't be any PL adapter flange issues and such with the EF mount models. Using Canon lenses on the likes of a Sony FS700 with a Metabones adapter (with full electronic communication) is a breeze, as are PL lenses. Then like you, I thought, "probably a Sony licensing issue."

But it's the same with the EF mount. The biggest camera competitor to BMD is Canon (with regards to DSLR users and in many cases, "C" users). Why would Canon license their EF mount to BMD?

So then I wonder, is a mount actually licensable? This I do not know. If a mount IS licensable, then why would Canon license it to BMD? If a mount isn't licensable, then why didn't BMD go with the Sony E mount for the 4K? My guess comes down to an alignment with your answer and the answer I've had since day 1... more people in the world have Canon EF and EF-S lenses and I'm assuming BMD wanted to have direct compatibility to those established lenses to the camera without the use of buying an additional adapter.

Still though, an E mount would have been nice. A swappable bayonet would have been even better! But in the end we make due and make pretty pictures anyway!

Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | BMCC Newsletter


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:14:15 pm

Very well said Marco.

Though I still think there's another variable in this problem...

I'll probably never be able to find it but I remember reading or watching a video where a Canon rep at NAB 2012 was asked about the BMCC coming out and how it would compete with their cameras and he responded by saying something to the effect of "look at the front of it. That's our lens mount and our lenses."

To me, this is really important. Canon is happy to license the mount because the Canon EF mount actually does sell Canon EF lenses. Even Canon views bodies as replaceable/upgradable but lenses are the investment and when you invest in the system that is a far greater opportunity for long term profitability.

Adding to that, you could buy a set of lenses for the BMCC and in two years decide that you want something else. You will look at what you have and having invested in those lenses, there is a much higher chance that you will say "I might as well buy a C_____."

In contrast, Sony knows that the E mount does not sell lenses. As you said, it sells Metabones adapters. There is no one out there buying E mount lenses for filmmaking. But L glass shoots everything nowadays. What the E mount does for Sony is it sells the FS700 because the consumer says "If I buy this camera, I can put any lens on it." So Sony profits off of the camera. If the mount were put on a third party camera, Sony loses that camera sale while knowing that they won't get a lens sale either. There is no win for Sony on either end.

Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3


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pekin azer
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 5:00:24 pm

Wow... Nice inputs everyone. Thanks.

You are what you make others feel.


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Marco Solorio
Re: For better PL lens adaptors, 4k with a NEX mount
on Sep 16, 2013 at 5:08:19 pm

Yup, all good points, Matthew. There's definitely just a tiny portion in the industry that would invest in E lenses. I don't own any myself, nor would I ever invest in them. And true again, Canon will sell lenses as a longterm investment, but not 100%. Sigma, Rokinon, Tamron, Zeiss, Nikon, etc... there's a slew of lenses that happily work on the EF mount, so it's not a totally monopoly for Canon, but it definitely does add Canon lens sales to the scenario that wouldn't have happened there before. All good points.

Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | BMCC Newsletter


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