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Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow

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Axel Arzola
Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 5, 2012 at 7:03:14 pm

I haven't got the BCCM yet, but I'm trying to learn the workflow I would have to follow with it.
Cutting in Premiere, and then sending to After effects to fix or add something is really a blessing. I have not found any article about Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow.

So far, I have read that to edit in Premiere I have to
1-Take the DNG raw inside Davinci and output the footage in another image sequence format that Premiere can handle.
2-Edit
3-Send XML or EDL to Davinci for final conform.

Is there a way of editing natively in Premiere and using After Effects for FX and doing all the color correction and conforming on Davinci.

I am trying to learn, so I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks

Axel Arzola

http://www.facebook.com/arzolafilm


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 7, 2012 at 1:17:17 pm

Unfortunately the workflow that you're looking for is extremely inefficient. So much so that Adobe flat out no longer supports it. The problem is that Premiere simply can't handle th CinemaDNG files in real time, or really anything close to it. After Effects can accept them but again, you will not have real time performance. Adobe's logic for this is that Premiere editors are used to real time editing so they do not support CinemaDNG native because the editing experience is too poor. Conversely, AE artists are used to not working in real time so it is less of a mental burden in After Effects.

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Axel Arzola
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 7, 2012 at 9:07:32 pm

If that is the case, working with DNG is going to be a nightmare on a heavy FX project. Why can Premiere handle RED r3d natively by changing playback resolution? Shouldn't be the same with DNG's?

Using AE is vital to fix many problems in post. I hope they come up with some solutions for this.
Thanks for the comment.

Axel Arzola

http://www.facebook.com/arzolafilm


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Eric Santiago
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 8, 2012 at 4:16:51 am

CinemaDNG and compositing in AE is no different from working with higher end frames such as 16bit TIFF or EXR (Im guessing of course).
Not uncommon to importing thousands of frames from a 3D (Maya, Max, etc)render into AE.
You will just have to prep your files for real time use in Premiere.
My last experience with R3D and Premiere wasnt fun even with a few ROCKETS. Im sure thats all fixed and smooth now with CS6.


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Peter Proniewicz-Brooks
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 10, 2012 at 1:37:14 pm

R3D is designed in such a way that it scales well in editing, DNG isn't, it's one of R3Ds strengths.

As a result Proxy or other transcoded workflow is your only option at the moment.


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 10, 2012 at 11:03:16 pm

The most important thing to realize with RED footage is that REDCODE RAW is not uncompressed RAW. Typically, REDCODE RAW is recorded anywhere between a 6:1 to an 18:1 lossy compression ratio. CinemaDNG on the other hand, is a full 1:1 uncompressed RAW recording. In this way, the files out of the BMCC are significantly larger than the files out of the RED. RED themselves say that their files are "visually lossless" but make no mistake that REDCODE RAW is a lossy compression.

In reality, REDCODE is a wavelet codec very much like CineForm. Both are derivatives of the JPEG2000 codec. Wavelet compression is extremely efficient and retains excellent quality with different, and less noticeable, compression artifacts than the standard blocky compression artifacts seen in most codecs. It is the efficiency of the compression that accounts for the smooth workflows that you are referring to. You see this in both REDCODE and CineForm. CinemaDNG by contrast, simply has no compression to streamline efficiency.

It is also worth noting that REDCODE is not the easiest thing to handle. It is typically not just turning the playback resolution down. In order to really get strong performance you do need a RED Rocket card.

That was a lot of technical information but I hope that explains things in a bit more clarity.

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Marco Solorio
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 10, 2012 at 11:34:53 pm

That's actually an excellent post, Matthew. To the original comments in this thread, any high-end format (CinemaDNG being one of them), the post workflow is going to take more time, CPU power, and storage space. It's no different than working with the likes of DPX and such. 12-bit RAW is a huge format, but extremely high quality. With this kind of quality, it'll take a hit on speed for now.

Personally, I'd rather have the 12-bit RAW lossless/uncompressed slowness, than a faster "RAW" method for realtime playback that loses some quality in the image. For that, I'll use 10-bit ProResHQ instead. But man, once you really start seeing the power of true 12-bit RAW, it's pretty damn awesome. And addicting! (hard to even use ProResHQ when RAW is there staring at you in the menu option).

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Axel Arzola
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 12, 2012 at 5:33:08 pm

Mathew, as you say when referring of RED: "RED themselves say that their files are "visually lossless" but make no mistake that REDCODE RAW is a lossy compression."

In my opinion, if we can not see visually the effects of a poor compression, then that's is the perfect codec and will make life easier.
I know that RED r3d won't be super easy to handle, but I'm sure Black Magic will figure out a way of improving their raw workflow soon.
Right now what I'm looking forward is to have both cameras to start testing and trouble shooting.

Thanks a lot for your help!!!! is really good to have this forum to share with professional!!!

Axel Arzola

http://www.facebook.com/arzolafilm


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Marco Solorio
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Oct 12, 2012 at 5:40:19 pm

[Axel Arzola] "In my opinion, if we can not see visually the effects of a poor compression, then that's is the perfect codec and will make life easier."

Just to note that there is a difference: Not visually seeing compression/subsampling artifacts by the naked eye on untreated footage, and visually seeing said artifacts once you start pushing levels and comping footage. ;-)

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Margus Voll
Re: Premiere+After Effects+Davinci workflow
on Nov 13, 2012 at 3:54:01 pm

I would go like we go with red now.

Get all your material to resolve and make tiny proxys out of them so that editor or director
could use their mac book to do offline.

later on you get xml from them and reconnect in resolve.

In proxy you have burn ins for all the frame numbers etc so it is easy to use dng in vfx work if you need.
After you finish your vfx you just replace in resolve frames to that shot or later online editors timeline.

I see dng workflow and red workflow really similar.

Seems really simple.

--

Margus

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