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CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces

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Tom Durham
CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Jul 28, 2015 at 8:51:55 am

Hey All,

If someone can answer this, I think it will help lots of folks... since Adobe + BlackMagic is a dream combo for indie filmmakers... :)

Recently shot commercial on BlackMagic Production Camera in 4K raw. Beautiful results.

Editing natively in Adobe Premiere. No problems. Will hand timeline and footage to colorist to color in SpeedGrade.

But for the effects shots, I'm importing my Cinema DNG raw image sequences into AE and doing my thing. No problems...

Except that I have no idea what I'm doing with color spaces. In Premiere I have that nice flat color scheme that colorists love.

In AE, it's definitely putting on some kind of gamma curve. I'd rather see the same contrast/etc. that I see in Premiere. And I'm not sure what settings to use to render to put something back on the premiere timeline that best preserves the footage.

Any workflow suggestions please?

I'm working in 32bit float and planning on rendering ProRes 4444 trillions.

THANKS!

Tom





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Barry Goch
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 8, 2015 at 4:52:14 am

Did you ever figure this out?? Do you still need help?

----
Barry Goch
Online Editor, Smoke Instructor, Webinar presenter for Smoke and Resolve
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Tom Durham
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 9, 2015 at 5:52:07 pm

Yes I still need help! :)





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Chris Wright
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 11, 2015 at 12:47:48 pm
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Sep 11, 2015 at 4:53:42 pm

DNG is RAW. there is no color management yet. there is no ISO except the camera's native 800. there is no temperature.
Did you monitor in rec709? Are you going for a really basic look before final grade?

1. a light pre-grade or make your own here is an example
adobe's camera RAW can create mini looks in the ACR
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ua1me2li7x4gu62/BMPC4K_RAW_TO_FILM_RGB.xmp?dl=0
drop in \AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings

2. i made a special LUT that emulates a BMD film log lut like in davinci resolve that you can use in premiere
using opencolorIO's tonal curves.9256_bmdfilmemulatortolog.3dl.zip

3. your own BMD gamma to rec2020/P3 LUT with simulation output rec709/widegamut monitor using dispcal, resolve, brizsoft etc. you can also try LOGc alexa LUTs for different looks. try the free AlexaV3_Rec709 from http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/tools/lut_generator/lut_generator/

4. if you want to grade smash all in one go, http://www.captainhook.co.nz/blackmagic-cinema-camera-lut/


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Tom Durham
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 11, 2015 at 4:51:44 pm

Cool! I'll play with these. Thanks much!

I think I'm beginning to understand the RAW, luts, and color correction.

My big question right now is how to deal with the CINEMA DNG in AfterEffects. It brings them in fine and I work with them natively to do compositing. This is all before any color correcting is done anywhere, other than in the raw controls.

AfterEffects definitely displays the colors differently. It's putting some kind of curve on things. And when I render things out, I'm obviously leaving the RAW land, and I lose the flat gamma that I like before correcting, which is what the premiere timeline still has since everything there is still RAW.

I've heard of ways to work in AE, and render out of AE that preserves things. Any thoughts?




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Chris Wright
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 12, 2015 at 3:41:18 am
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Sep 13, 2015 at 3:43:08 am

its a bug.
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/967454#967462

I actually just re-tested it myself and the premiere import of dng looks aweful but the dynamic link of them from importing AE comps into Premiere looks fine. still not fixed!

You shouldn't have to render anything out until the final grade.
https://helpx.adobe.com/speedgrade/using/direct-link-workflow.html

If you do need a rendered intermediate and don't want to lose your raw data, you can render out an openexr 32 float image sequence or Tiff float. Keep it float, log or RAW until you want a high quality master of your final speedgrade.

That will be kind of like conforming out of RAW because grading is usually crushing blacks and white, so you won't need massive space for the post-grade master. But still, keep it 4:4:4 16bit trillions so that you don't get banding colors.

And finally, don't use color icc profiles for the master, they degrade quality. Use 64d 3d LUTS so that you have the option of burning in DCI for theatres or HD709 BLURAY later on. It's called a multi-transforming matrix. for example, a rec709/P3 LUT -> DCDCM X’Y’Z 3D 64 LUT would convert your nice grade on your color managed monitor to a DCP compliant format without using color metric profiles.



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Chris Wright
Re: CINEMA DNG post production workflow and color spaces
on Sep 12, 2015 at 10:53:25 am
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Sep 13, 2015 at 5:13:36 am

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1552600

it's such a massive bug that for professional results, you will need a......wait for it.. LUT to convert between ACR's in AE
and lumetri's dng plugin for Premiere to AE if you want to use dynamic link. and I believe that dynamic link crops sizes as well, since AE and premiere border crop differently, you'll never get a plate lined up!


use this to fix ACR to lumetra dng import difference in dynamic link
http://www.lightillusion.com/matchlight_ims.html

but really.

you're better off just rendering out of premiere, stinks huh. yep!

it gets even better, you need
http://www.fnordware.com/ProEXR/
premiere doesn't have native 32bpc export, cool huh?


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