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Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina

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Ingólfur Björnsson
Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 1, 2014 at 7:12:07 pm

Hey there everyone.

I shot a short movie on a BM 4K Apple prores and now it's time to edit.
I've used FCP on a MacBook pro retina, but I'm quite tired of all the rendering all the time. And now with 4K I'm kind of not looking forward for it.

How does Adobe Premiere handle the 4K stuff compared to FCP?

Hope someone here has tried both and can tell me the pro's and con's :)

Thank you,
Ingo


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 1, 2014 at 11:48:27 pm

You don't really need to render all the time, unless you are using something like Neat Video or a combination of certain 3rd party plug ins. At least in my experience playing back unrendered 1080p with basic effects is very smooth, using better quality playback or proxy, that is.

With BM ProRes 4k it's a different matter. I use an imac i7 with 32gb Ram and a LaCie Thunderbolt 1 drive.

Editing and playback is fine with better performance as long as you don't add any effects. Color correction doesn't affect it much, but turning on stabilization requires rendering, or using proxy. The 4k proxy actually looks very good.

Red Giants Holomatrix needs rendering, Magic Bullet Looks, and probably the rest of the Red stuff as well. Holomatrix doesn't respond very quickly in 4k when fiddling with the settings.

And Slice X is not really 4k friendly yet. It will make X crash on playback or just clicking around. Even when rendered.

I haven't used it with Premiere, except for importing to see if it worked. In AFX it seems to work just as fast as using HD. I can't see much of a difference. Mocha Tracking worked just as fast.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Ingólfur Björnsson
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 1, 2014 at 11:55:12 pm

I just have one problem. Most of the footage was shot with the camera upside down on a steadycam rig and just turning it 180° in FPC demands rendering. And it takes a lot of time. This 4K stuff in no joke.
5.52 GB a minute.

I really thought I wouldn't need to render frames I'm just turning 180° :(


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 2, 2014 at 5:48:03 pm

Turning it 180 is unfortunately a motion effect and this needs to be rendered one way or another, whether by you rendering, or by the hardware accelerating the playback or rendering in the background. You're right, 4K is no joke.

If you ask me I would just transcode to a more edit friendly format like a smaller ProRes like LT or Proxy or even transcode to Cineform. Smaller files, easier playback, easier on the rendering load.

Is there a reason that you need to do the edit fully online in 4K?

Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3


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Frank Wit
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on Jul 25, 2014 at 5:39:01 pm
Last Edited By Frank Wit on Jul 25, 2014 at 5:49:10 pm

Flip the prores movs in QT player 7
command-J to open properties
select video track
visual settings: flip vertical-horizontal-rotate whatever..
save movie, ( no need to save as) done!

I do this all the time without rendering.

Greetz!

Frank


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Richard Martz
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 1:54:26 pm

Never worked with 4K prores but I would think that you could convert to Prores proxy files for editing. Then reconnect and render at the end of the post process for each scene.

We almost never work with ProRes HQ files unless we are just doing a short commercial. The rendering on a long form project is just too painful. Also we never edit Prores on a long form movie on one long timeline. We have a different timeline for each scene. Those timelines are usually just a few minutes long. This allows us to divide the workload. As each scene is finished with the basic cut we can send that to post audio, custom music composition and even final color grading if we want to expedite the process. And when we are finished with the entire project we can work much faster to assemble everything with shorter single timeline layer Quicktime movies.

I would be interested in what other people have to say about their approach to 4K workflow though as we are about to purchase the BMD 4K as well.

Sincerely,
Richard Martz

MagicMartz Media, Inc.
BrikPower Batteries
Atlanta, GA

FCP 7
FCP X
Blackmagic Cinema Camera
ADOBE CREATIVE SUITE CC
Premiere Pro
DaVinci Resolve 9.0
MAC 8 core
After Effects
PhotoShop
Illustrator
Sony HD Cameras
24' Camera Crane with Motorhead
8' jib arm
20K watts of lighting
Multitrack audio
Teleprompters
Grip Truck/trailer
Location video monitoring
Door and hood mounts
Lots of other Fun Stuff!


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 4:42:31 pm

Exactly right. ProRes Proxy conversion for edit would be the most efficient way.

Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3


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Richard Martz
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 5:25:27 pm

Sorry, Matthew. I did not see your post before I posted my repetitively redundundundundant post :).

Sincerely,
Richard Martz

MagicMartz Media, Inc.
BrikPower Batteries
Atlanta, GA

FCP 7
FCP X
Blackmagic Cinema Camera
ADOBE CREATIVE SUITE CC
Premiere Pro
DaVinci Resolve 9.0
MAC 8 core w 32GB memory
After Effects
PhotoShop
Illustrator
Sony HD Cameras
24' Camera Crane with Motorhead
8' jib arm
20K watts of lighting
Multitrack audio
Teleprompters
Grip Truck/trailer
Location video monitoring
Door and hood mounts
Lots of other Fun Stuff!


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 5:28:13 pm

Richard, I will never forgive you :)

Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3


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Ingólfur Björnsson
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 8:10:39 pm

Well I just started editing in Premiere and haven't had any problems so far.
But haven't had to render anything yet so maybe I'll run into problems later :p .

I don't know anything about the proxy stuff so I'll leave it for now.

But thank you for your reply's :)


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Editing 4K on a MacBook pro retina
on May 5, 2014 at 11:18:50 pm

I tested it with Premiere yesterday, and it is smoother than on X (with fx). But rendering is slower than X, and a composite I rendered with a mask, some cc curves and red's holomatrix crashed my iMac, but only once. The red universe plugins react the same on X and Premiere, when not rendered.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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