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Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens

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Charlie Cogar
Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 23, 2010 at 1:57:49 pm

Our JVC-GYHM700s have the Fujinon Th17x5BRMU lens. The lenses meet our needs and work fine. Has anyone using this lens achieved shots with shallow depth of field - - where the main subject is in focus and the background is defocused, drawing the eye to the main subject?

I know how to "set it up" using principles from portrait still photography, but have never pulled off a video interview shot satisfactorily.

Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Charlie Cogar


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Piotr Niemcewicz
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 23, 2010 at 6:08:08 pm

1. maximum distance
2. ND filter on 2
3. Open iris to maximum
4. if to dark, maybe little gain - about 3dB



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Will Granzier
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 23, 2010 at 8:32:28 pm

Hey

We use the same cams as well as GY101's to shoot bodyboarding for broadcast television. This how i do it.

Set your cam to shoot at an iris of around 4 or even lower. That reduces your focal depth big time. Set up the cam about 3 m away from the person you want to interview. Zoom in to the subject and get your framing right. Focus and voila !

Well the more out of focus u want the backdrop - move the cam back and zoom in to your subject !!



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Charlie Cogar
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 23, 2010 at 9:49:13 pm

Thank you folks. I'll try it again using your recommendations.


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Phil Balsdon
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 23, 2010 at 10:01:43 pm

The difficulty is not in the lens, its the 1/3in CCDs. The only way to get a really shallow depth of field with small chip cameras is to use an adaptor such as Mini35 or Letus or a number of others.

This is also one of the reasons the new HD DSLR cameras have become so popular.


Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Will Granzier
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 24, 2010 at 4:46:20 am

I have never had an issue to get the desired effect with tthe cam even when shooting with a 1/3 to 1/2 inch lens adapter using a pegasus 2 fujinon.

The principle works the same on all cameras. The ccd is irrelevant. Just open ur iris all the way. Then up or down your shutter speed to get the exposure. Simple as that. Slr are ok for home movies of the kids in the garder, but arrive with one of those a news eng shoot and you will be sent home quicker than a pizza at a weight watchers convension.

Its horses for courses.


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Phil Balsdon
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 24, 2010 at 11:04:27 am

Never shot home movies, never shot the kids in the garden. Just 40 years of shooting feature films, documentaries, tv commercials, music clips, done tons of ENG too even back when it was 16mm film, etc etc.

Wonder why George Lucas(you might have heard of him he made "Star Wars") has just used HD DSLRS for a feature film, wonder why the final episode of "House" was shot with Canon 5Ds, wonder why the Iaccoca Mustang commercial was shot with Canon 5D HD DSLRs.

Want to learn more try here http://philipbloom.net/
and then here http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

"Youth and enthusiasm, no match for old age and experience"

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Will Granzier
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 26, 2010 at 2:46:18 pm

Good for you using a SLR

Because you can drive a car with your feet doesnt make it a good idea.
There are 12 international TV adverts that were entirely shot and produced on mobile phones !! What does that make it the next thing to shoot broadcast with ??

Point is you dont need a SLR with a Nikon lens to get what the chap wanted to achieve. You can do it with PD 150 for that matter.

If the SLR's are so good that even George is switching, I wonder why NBC, CNN, Sky and 20 of the top networks wont touch them ?



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Phil Balsdon
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 27, 2010 at 12:07:33 am

If the SLR's are so good that even George is switching, I wonder why NBC, CNN, Sky and 20 of the top networks wont touch them ? If the SLR's are so good that even George is switching, I wonder why NBC, CNN, Sky and 20 of the top networks wont touch them ?

Perhaps some one told them;

Slr are ok for home movies of the kids in the garder, but arrive with one of those a news eng shoot and you will be sent home quicker than a pizza at a weight watchers convension.

Great thing about the worldwide web, everyone is free to say what they think.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Ryan Orr
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 27, 2010 at 4:51:05 pm

NBC used them for the show openings for SNL and Jay Leno...with incredible results.


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Ola Haldor Voll
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Aug 2, 2010 at 6:28:14 pm

I don't know anything about that production, but I know they're making an entire TV series with two 1D MK IV cameras here in Norway. They're shooting one with zoom and the other is shooting wide.. Two angles at the same time.

The trick is to output HDMI (as far as I know, it's HDMI 1.4, which equals 10-bit color depth!) to a Prores hard drive/memory card recorder. That's the trick - right there..


I wasn't interested in shooting with dSLRs until I knew about this. Now I'd like to get my hands on one and get going. Mostly for commercials, music videos and that alike.



The HM700 however is a very nice camera. We got one ourselves, and will probably get a few more to have a complete multicam setup using all JVC cameras instead of 2 XL H1 and one HM700.

I agree with anything they have said earlier about zoom, open aperture and distance.. Good luck!


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Charlie Cogar
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Aug 2, 2010 at 7:03:14 pm

I watched a bit of green screen production for a new syndicated children's television program where they are shooting 13 episodes with two Canon 7d DSLRs for green screens, and exteriors with RED and Panasonic P2 cams. That's quite a work flow.


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Darrell Beck
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Aug 3, 2010 at 2:42:27 am

Will,

Be careful. If you want to continue to succeed, you must open your mind to changes. Was it difficult for you to switch from tape based editing to non-linear? I bet it was, but it was worth it, was it not?

I have been in this business for over 20 years, and I work very hard to make sure I stay current and not get stuck in a rut. I just cannot be one of those guys who are afraid of change. I know a still photographer who insists on shooting on film and refuses to go digital. He swears it is better, but his business is really hurting. He is afraid of the technology and admitting the facts.

Last year, I purchased two Sony EX1’s at about $8,000 each. I have a lot invested in them so I want to use them. A few months ago, I purchased a Canon SLR, with lens, for under $2k. I cannot believe the picture quality. I have recorded interviews with both cameras, side by side, and I use the EX1 for audio only and as a back up because I am still afraid of using the SLR alone. But the look of the SLR is just incredible. Today, I shot with the SLR behind a teleprompter. It looked so strange to me having such a small camera behind that mirror, but the results were amazing. I was in a small room, the subject was about 6 feet from the lens, and the background was a wonderful blur. You must try it sometime.


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Joe O'Neill
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Mar 29, 2011 at 11:36:52 pm

I have the same problem. Same camera, same lens. Very deep DOP. Nothing shallow.

The iris is wide open, the subject is the right length from the camera, there just isn't anyway to crush the background. Very frustrating.

Joe


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Will Granzier
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Mar 30, 2011 at 4:34:34 am

Hi Joe

I shoot for television all the time and it's a technique I use in ENG interviews. How far away is your subject from the cam ?

Keep in mind to get the crushed or blurred background u need to be zoned into your objectl... Even just a bit...


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Phil Balsdon
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 26, 2010 at 11:58:13 pm

Lets get back to the original post. Charlie wants a shallow depth of field and is struggling to achieve the effect as extremely as he wants. He specified a Fujinon lens, I simply pointed out the problem is not the lens. There's a limit to how shallow the depth field is achievable with the 1/3in format.

Three things impact on depth of field:

1. F stop, the larger the better for shallow depth of field. ie 1.8, 2, 2.8 are preferable to f16 or f11.

2. The focal length of the lens. The longer your focal length the shallower your apparent depth of field.

3. The size of the image plane. This goes hand in hand with focal length because on smaller image planes the apparent magnification is greater for the same focal length.

Getting your camera as far away from your subject as possible and zooming in, opening your f stop as wide as possible, adding some ND or a Polarizer is the only option. This is okay if you're outside and have space but if you're in a smaller room you are restricted. The other consequence is the perspective of the field of view. Moving away and zooming in will greatly magnify the background in relation to your foreground subject. If you want to see a complete panorama in the background and have it soft in focus you're really struggling.

The range 35mm adaptors that appeared on the market following the introduction of the smaller HD cameras almost all work on the principle of introducing an intermediate larger 35mm format focus screen on to which an image using a 35mm camera lens is focused. This intermediate image is then re-shot using the cameras lens or a special intermediate lens. This system works well and is really popular for drama and commercial shooting, it is however a little cumbersome and requires skill and care. The better versions of these adaptors are also more expensive than purchasing a good HD SLR with a good lens or two.

Everything comes at a price and the sacrifices made to achieve HD images in smaller cheaper cameras was a smaller CCD, normally 1/3 inch. The forfeit is they're less sensitive so in low light can be a struggle to get a good exposure and they don't offer the same low depth of field images as their 2/3in or larger film format cameras.

I've been shooting with a JVC HD111e for almost five years and I love it, so do my clients. It speeds up shoots enormously and delivers a very high quality image. However more recently I've been shooting more and more with a 7D because producers want the filmic low depth of field "look" that's easily achievable with this camera. The down sides are audio quality, but dual system recording overcomes this. Shot duration is restricted to 12mins, but this just requires a momentary button off then on again, during a question is good and the audio recorder is still rolling, so this moment can be covered with a reversal or a cutaway. For some events this is an unacceptable restriction, such as concerts or sporting events when you don't want your vision to crash at a critical moment.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Will Granzier
Re: Shallow Depth of Field w/Fujinon Lens
on Jul 27, 2010 at 8:44:04 am

Phil

Now youre talking sense !


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