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JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)

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Nick Papadopoulos
JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 28, 2008 at 11:12:20 am

Hello,

I've been having several issues, while trying to capture 720 24p from my GY-HD101E with the latest and greatest Final Cut Pro (6.0.4). Please keep in mind that I use the JVC ProHD DVM-63 tapes.

I have 5 questions... Any one question answered will mean a great deal to me.

1. I have footage shot at HDV 720p24. Does this mean 23.98 or is it true 24.00 fps for the JVC GY-HD101E?

2. When using Prores 422, time-code for a full second goes from ...:00 to ...:23, which seems to be correct. But when capturing native HDV in FCP, even when having the device control preset edited to use 23.98/24 fps time-code, the full second goes from ...:00 to ...:29 . First of all, should time code for 24p (for this camera at 24p) be set to drop-frame or non-drop frame, and secondly, is the way FCP handles time-code for 24p native HDV (:00 to :29) correct or is there a setting i've missed?

3. Is there any workflow that can utilize offline batch capture with this camera, WITHOUT creating 1 and 2 second gaps, and in addition keeping time-code intact? (I have pre/post-roll set to 1 second to avoid excessive gaps).

4. Is there anyway to preview footage on the camera/log n capture window, frame by frame? When in fcp's log and capture window, I press the left and right keys, the time-code shifts accordingly (albeit at 29.97 instead of 24 - see question 2), but the image on camera or on-screen, is not updating... Is this due to the mpeg-2 encoding or is there a setting that can help? Otherwise how on earth do you know which in/out points you log for capture, without frame accurate preview?

5. Are there any working settings/easy setups for FCP that you have found to work well for 720p24 for native HDV editing? Can you recommend a full set of presets (and/or editing of presets) to have a complete workflow for this camera without any issues? For example, a good working sequence preset, capture preset, and more importantly device control preset. Are any of these, edited (such as pre/post roll time to 1 sec) or not?

Thank you in advance for any help you might or might not give :)

Regards,

Nick P.


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Chris Borjis
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 28, 2008 at 10:44:40 pm

[Nick Papadopoulos] "Are there any working settings/easy setups for FCP that you have found to work well for 720p24 for native HDV editing?"

all you have to do is load the final cut pro "HDV 720P 24" easy setup, then log and capture and put it in the timeline. Thats all you really need to do.




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Nick Papadopoulos
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 28, 2008 at 11:24:34 pm

Thank you for your answer. I have already tried what you suggest in your post, but still the problems mentioned in my questions above, continue to exist... I was looking for answers relative on tackling these problems...

Warm Regards,

Nick P.


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Nick Papadopoulos
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 30, 2008 at 1:16:28 pm

So does anyone have any experience with the problems i'm mentioning?

Is it impossible to do offline/online with JVC gy-hd cameras?



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Chris Borjis
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 30, 2008 at 6:06:15 pm

here are the answers to the questions on your original post:

1. 24p is 23.98 just like 60p is 59.94 and 30 is 29.97

2. the cameras come set for drop-frame recording, I would leave it there. You ask about ProRes but don't really go into detail. Are you capturing your footage over firewire and capturing as ProRes? If So with all the delay that occurs I would not recommend using that as a workflow for reliable batch logging/capturing.

3. With any HDV workflow those gaps are going to happen, its the nature of the beast. at the very least, EVERYTIME the camera is started and stopped there will be a clip break. If this is something you can't live with, then HDV is not for you. DVCPRO-HD does not have this kind of problem at all since its frame based and not mpeg based.

4. Frame by frame is not possible because HDV/Mpeg uses "Group Of Pictures" GOP type encoding and not frame based. So logging to the frame is not really an option, just grab 10 more seconds on the heads and tail.

5. This is from a post someone made regarding this particular issue:

I have just tested this version's "Easy Setup" for HDV 720p24 and it does not properly set the device control. For proper HDV 23.98fps TC capture you should simply go into "Audio/Video Settings" and select:
"HDV - 720p24" as your Sequence Preset
"HDV" as your Capture Preset
"HDV Firewire 23.98" as your device preset.


Hope this helps you Nick. Please ask away if you have more questions.





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Nick Papadopoulos
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Jul 31, 2008 at 1:10:49 am

wow... chris,

thank you for you very detailed answer(s)... It has helped clear out quite a few issues i've been having, albeit it created a few more questions, so that I can fully understand whats going on...

The reason I asked for question 1 (23.98 or true 24), is because I have the gy-hd101E (european) version of the camera, and was afraid it might be different for this camera, and since the manual is not clear on this, i thought i'd ask :)

About question 2, prores was captured via firewire. My question on this issue though was that, time code for prores 422 captured from hdv via firewire (with footage shot as 720p24), was captured properly. On the other hand the same footage captured as native hdv (with 23.98 selected as timecode in the device control preset), the timecode ACTUALLY captured was incorect (going from :00 to :29). Having read up more on this though, i think its due to the 2:3 pull down, that hdv inherently has (? correct?), so final cut for some reason uses 29.97 for the clips, rather than 24 time code. Something interesting I discovered though was that,720p24 clips with 29.97 timecode were captured "quite" accurately. On the other hand, when I switched the clips time code base to 23.98, the clips could not be recaptured.

The above is still confusing for me... can you chris, or anyone clear this one up for me?

Question 3 was covered completely, but something about question 4. Since frame accurate logging is impossible, what happens when a tc break occurs within the 10 second preroll you suggested of capturing?

Better yet, what is the most recommended workflow for logging and capturing HDV???

Is there any way to offline/online in the end (hopefully through firewire) or should I forget tape storage all together?

Chris, you've been a tremendous help, and YES, i took advantage of your offer for "asking away more questions" :) I hope you don't mind...

Regards,

Nick P.



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Chris Borjis
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Aug 1, 2008 at 6:57:05 pm

[Nick Papadopoulos] "so final cut for some reason uses 29.97 for the clips, rather than 24 time code."

Yes and some say thats a bug in FCP.


[Nick Papadopoulos] "Since frame accurate logging is impossible, what happens when a tc break occurs within the 10 second preroll you suggested of capturing?"

well, as long as you log in and out points during a recording take thats not going to happen. (shouldn't at least)

This of course assumes that the shooter hit the record button,
waited 10 seconds then called action, then when action completed, let the camera roll another 10 seconds before stopping the recording.

Thats the way a lot of film people do it and thats essential for HDV recording, in order to keep clip breaks from happening during a shot.

offline/online is becoming less necessary these days especially with how cheap storage is and how fast systems can handle heavy loads of footage. offline/online for HDV I would say is not necessary at all and probably creating more work for you in the end.



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Will Granzier
Re: JVC GY-HD101E 720 24p Capture in FCP 6.0.4 (Or any GY-HD10x version)
on Sep 26, 2010 at 4:30:04 am

Hi Nick

I use the HDY 101 extensively for broadcast work. I like to use the Prorez Codec when capturing. It does not give the long breaks when doing log and capture. HOWEVER it does not give you scene breaks.

It workd for me as I do not require scene breaks and tend to scan through all my footage once captured... If you have troubles try mailing me direct digitalemotion@sainet.co.za

Regards

William


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