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Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6

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Chris Borjis
Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jun 19, 2013 at 5:42:35 pm

Hey Adobe, please fix your broken preset for AME CC.

It refuses to encode DV .mov files at 23.98

It ALWAYS encodes them to 29.97 even when a DV 24p preset is selected.



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Todd Kopriva
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jun 20, 2013 at 4:40:32 am

Please submit bug reports here:
http://adobe.ly/ReportBug

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
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Nick Schlott
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 10, 2013 at 11:30:08 pm

Chris -

So I wrote, and Peter Garaway reposted in the CC thread, this response:

"This is intentional. DV 24p really is 29.97 fps, not 23.976. Or rather, it's both. 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 (Premiere/AME does the latter) pulldown is added to bring the 23.976fps material up to 29.97. Advanced programs like Premiere, After Effects, AME, etc can detect and optionally remove the pulldown, turning the material back into 24 fps progressive video. In Premiere/AME, you can keep or remove the pulldown in the Interpret Footage dialog using the "Remove 24p DV Pulldown" checkbox. If the box is checked, the material will be interpreted as progressive 23.976. Simpler programs such as QuickTime Player that don't understand 24p pulldown will interpret the material as 29.97."

To which you replied:

"Thanks for the info, but there are times that us folks require it to
show itself as 23.98 pulldown or no.

A very big community like Pro-Tools users, NEEDS this feature
for 23.98 native sessions with picture.

LOTS of us have dv boxes plugged in via firewire to our Pro Tools systems to send picture
to a monitor. The DV file must match the pro tools session.

This is important. Currently only apple compressor can do it correctly.

I'd still like AME to do it....at the very least there *should* be
an option to enable/disable the pull down to get 23.98"

I don't understand this workflow. Why do you need malformed SD DV to make your solution work? Also I'm surprised that your DV box will accept 23.976 DV files; what hardware are you using? And why does it matter to ProTools? Help me out here, I want to understand.
Thanks,
Nick


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Chris Borjis
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 12:02:06 am

Hi Nick, we often get 24 frame native projects from Hollywood.

Pro-Tools session setups can vary between all the established industry frame
rates including 23.98

there are special settings within pro-tools for adding pulldown and not having pulldown.

we often get without.

for this reason, the DV 23.98 file has to match otherwise it will
not import to pro-tools.

There are a lot of us that use this work flow and some day I'd like
to completely remove all my apple legacy apps, but this is one
thing that makes me need to keep them. :)

thanks for being pro-active on this. Really appreciate it.



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Nick Schlott
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 2:34:11 am

Hi, Chris. I guess you're getting me on the right track, but I'm not there yet.

So what is it you get from Hollywood? An already-i-process project of some sort, or some other pile of assets (in what formats?) ? That you then need to turn around and convert into something ProTools likes (meaning QuickTime DV 23.976 + I assume some audio, though maybe you're adding all new audio yourself in ProTools).

Then you do audio work in ProTools and while you're doing it you need to monitor the video as DV. Right? (Why? Can't you just look at the computer monitor? What am I missing?) I assume the DV is just throw-away reference video at this point that helps you refer to the video. It can't be the final product.

Thanks for your patience explaining this.


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Nick Schlott
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 3:51:41 am

Oh, wait: is the DV video not for visual reference, but actually the clock that ProTools wants to reference, either as timecode or just reference time? Is that why it's there?


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Chris Borjis
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:56:42 pm

you're getting there :)

It's for visual reference and no the clock is internal, but
pro-tools will not allow a reference video track to be imported
that doesn't match the session settings.

when we get files for ADR sessions like we did for TNT's Leverage,
we'd get 23.98 files from Electric Entertainment.

The pro-tools session is set for 23.98, no pulldown. (you can have pulldown option too
but if the studio specifies no pull down, then it shouldn't/can't be enabled.)

when the session (project) is set that way, the video file to output to
monitors for the actors, must exactly match or pro-tools will give an error
and reject the video file import.

Another option is to have a black magic card installed, which can output
pro-res to a monitor in hidef. we can't do that because our macs are filled
with pro-tools HD Accel 3 pci-e cards. But it would be the same situation
where we would use a prores file at 23.98 which AME does a fabulous job making. :)

In a nutshell, whatever can be changed in AME's DV 23.98 preset to make it
create a DV quicktime that indicates 23.98 frame rate when I check it's properties
(the same way apple compressor does) would completely solve my issue.


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Nick Schlott
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 6:41:27 pm

OK, I think I get what you're doing. Let me think about this; I can't promise anything because we really like not making illegal DV, I'll consider some sort of workaround. Can you please send me a file that's *exactly* what you want to use? It doesn't have to be long, a few seconds will do.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 9:33:25 pm

sure, where do I send it to?



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Nick Schlott
Re: Unbelievable - AME CC cannot encode DV 23.98 same as CS6
on Jul 11, 2013 at 10:53:44 pm

ping me at nschlott at yahoo dot com and we'll figure something out.


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