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Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.

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Gary Bettan
Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 6, 2002 at 7:33:18 pm

Both the new Sony unit and the Pioneer DVR-A05 offer 4x DVD-R burn speeds. 4x means you can burn a full 4.7GB disk in about 15 minutes!!

The Sony unit supports both the +R and -R standards. This is comforting if you are confused by all the format issues. You do pay a premium for this multi-format support. This is Sony's first DVD burner, and they are having some technical issues. To their credit firmware updates are coming out in a timely fashion.

The Pioneer DVR-A05 is their third generation DVD-R product. Each generation has gotten more reliable and faster. Pioneer has a proven track record here and they have a dominant market share position. We've sold thousands of A03 and A04 DVD burners - our customers love them. At $299.95 the new A05s are flying off the shelves.

We feel strongly that DVD-R is the way to go for the independent DVD producer. Use -RW while you are working on your project, then duplicate to the cheaper -R media. The -R media is significantly cheaper then +r. Why add costs to your finished production for no reason? Even if it's only a buck a disk, that can add up to a nice chunk of change over a few months.

-R has a huge installed base of burners which translates into the real-world 'proof' that the DVD-R & -RW technology works. The final 'proof' to us that the war is over and that -R has won is the new Sony drive itself. Sony is a main founding partner in the +R camp. Even before the new drive Sony included Pioneer -R drives in their VAIO systems - not +R units. Now Sony officially jumps on the -R bandwagon. Sony recognizes that a drive without -R compatibility will not win in the marketplace.

The way I see it is simple - Why pay a premium for the Sony drive just to have added compatibility with the losing format? If both drives are the same price, then it's a tougher choice.

Gary

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fimduc
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 8, 2002 at 4:47:36 am

In the latest issue of Storage Management Solutions Magazine you'll find an interesting article by Dawn S. Wortman, senior marketing manager at Maxell, about the recordable DVD formats and their applications. The article is hopefully pretty unbiased since Maxell makes media for all formats. Check it out as it offers very good information on the features and benefits of the different formats. I do not believe it is a foregone conclusion that +R/RW is a losing format, in fact it may have better features for video editing. Check out the article at this web site http://www.smsmag.com/SMS_Current/DVD_Format.asp


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Gary Bettan
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 8, 2002 at 3:19:40 pm

Cool article. I see a different conclusion. While she compares +R and -R as the same, the truth is there still remains a significant cost advantage for blank -R over +R media.

The +RW format has advantages over -RW for data storage. Thsi is mostly because a +RW records ina very similar fashion to a CD-RW.
But these advantages pale in comparison to the DVD-RAM format for data, archiving & back-up. DVD-RAM drives look just like a removable hard drive to your computer and they can be 100,000 times.

The point about finalizing is important, more so with a stand alone player. That's why although we recommend the -R burners, we go with the Philips +RW stand alone unit.

In conclusion we see DVD-R as the clear winning format for you to distribute the DVDs you produce. The faster the burn speeed, the more short runs you can afford to do in house. The less expensive media means you make more profits.

Either -RW or +RW is recommended for 'test' burning while your project is still a work in progress. Both the Sony unit and the Pioneer give you 2X DVD-RW burning. I just don't see the point in paying the 10-20% premium for the multi-format compatibility. The DVR-A05 gives you everything you need at a great price $299.95!!

Gary





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danothemano
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 11, 2002 at 1:05:40 am

Well, your entitled to your opinion, but tell me where you shop. I won't go there. I'm finding +R and some +RW disc about the same price as -R and -RW. Also, for $329 I bought the Sony DRU 500A. Right now it's the ONLY way to go. Works great.


Don’t believe everything you read, especially on the Internet


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ProDVD_Authoring
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 17, 2002 at 2:32:50 pm

Hi DVD Folks:
I own and run a medium sized DVD authoring and post production facility. I also recommend Pioneer over other manufacturors if only for one simple reason - Quality of equipment and its reliability. However, we are very disappointed with Pioneer's marketing strategies for their products, which, in our opinion, has so far directly undermined professional users !!
It is easy to understand Pioneer's need to hit the consumer level market, because this is where the lion's share of the market is. Still, us early adopters of Pioneer Recordable DVD products feel like we have been "Punished." Those of us who purchased the Pioneer DVR S101's at $17,000.00 US and DVR S201's at $5,400.00 US, which use what Pioneer now calls the "Authoring" format, have been largely abandoned in favor of the "General" recording initiative ! Where we are located, we can neither adequately purchase a steady supply of the DVD R (A) for Authoring media, nor can we get it at a reasonable price which comes anywhere close to what users of the "General" recordable media are paying ! If you are a very large corporation, then you can absorb this level of expense and quickly move on, however, if you are a small to medium size company like we are, it becomes more difficult to walk away from such a large investment in equipment and materials!! There is a limit as to how much of these expenses can be passed on to our clients !!
In addition to onobtainable media supplies, we were promised by Pioneer they would enable recording on RW Authoring media via a firmware upgrade, but this never materialized !!
Pioneer is doing it yet again to it's professional users by retailing the PRV 9000 DVDR (G) Table Top Recorder for $1,500 more in our market than the consumer grade DVR 7000,which is a Pioneer "ELITE" product. Both units are EXACTLY the same DVD recorder with exactly the same features but in a different color cabinet!!! Pioneer really needs to seriously re-think their marketing strategies in favor of a more fair approach in regard to its professional clientele !!!!


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fimduc
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 17, 2002 at 9:49:24 pm

I like Pioneer as well and you make a good point about high tech products that do not get upgraded. That happened to the first adopters of the HP DV 100i +R. They promised that a firmware would allow +RW recording....it never happened and they released the HP200i, but they did let past owners turn the old ones in for a credit. Better than nothing!

One feature of the Sony that is better than the Pioneer is that the Sony has a 8mb buffer opposed to the 2mb buffer on the current Pioneer. That can be a big help! General media +R or -R is all the same price now, so I do not think that has anything to do with the decision of Pioneer, Sony or another brand.

What are the benefits of this DVD R (A) media?


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WTS
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
by
on Dec 18, 2002 at 12:37:39 am

DVD-R authoring media can only be used on with the S201--you can't use general media with that burner, nor can you use the authoring media in the AO3/4/5's. Here are a couple of links comparing the two:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/Files/DVDR_WhitePaper.pdf

http://www.recipe4dvd.com/103/index.html

I personally don't think the buffer is an issue. I have 3 Pioneer burners (2-AO3's and 1A05) and have run them simultaneously(without coasters) with Prassi Primo dvd (which supports up to 16 simultaneous burns) which helps allocate additional memory buffer to accomodate multiple burners. The DVD-R media is still cheaper than +R, although the gap is narrowing. The +R/RW format is not a part of the DVD alliance, so they can't officially put the dvd logo on the media. The (+) format has not done as well will being read on a computer dvd-rom, especially older ones. I archive my digital photos onto dvd-r media for long term storage. I have had DVD+R media with images archived on them brought to me that couldn't be read on two of my dvd-rom's (not burners). The Sony potentially offers a wider selection of dvd type media to burn to, but there are several reports of dvd-r media it is having trouble with. There have been firmware upgrades to help address this, but I know of one major bulk media seller who pulled the drive out for now and is waiting for the 'newer' Sony (which is the same burner with upgraded firmware) to be released.


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ProDVD_Authoring
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Dec 18, 2002 at 1:37:14 am

Hi Fimduc:
The benefits offered by the DVD R (A) for authoring format is threefold. The entire recordable 4.7 Gigabytes of space is available on the disc for writing. Contrary to what DVD R (G) "General" recording discs say, there is NOT the full 4.7 Gigabytes available to the user. The inside diameter where the copy encryption and other information is written by the DVD R (A) burner is already "pre-burned" or "blanked out" at the factory on the general media.
This is done so that general recording discs cannot be used to make illegal copies of commercially produced copy encrypted "pressed" DVD discs.
At the time we made the decision to purchase the Pioneer S201, several of our clients were asking us about adding copy encryption protection to their titles. Pioneer was also pushing thier "Cutting Master Format" solution also afforded by burning in their DVD R(A)for Authoring media with the S201 DVD R (A) burner. Pioneer stated that this special Cutting Master Format feature would allow a recorded disc to be used to make a stamping master from authoring media through some kind of a special process to be used by the replicator. In my market the replicator not only CANNOT use CMF, but prefers to also NOT use a DVD disc at all as a source of a DVD master image !!! The replicator likes DLT tape instead, which is the normal source that DVD stamping masters are created from !! DLT tape was the original source media DVD disc images were authored from before the existence of the recordable DVD formats.
If you are an interactive game developper, then DVD R (A) is for you. Disc space is precious so the more you can get the better. Game developpers prefer DVD R (A).
The problem for us is that we can't get a break on the high costs or the avialability of the authoring recordable media ! Our DVD clients come to us in two groups. The high end group which pays just fine. The off the street consumers who want a fast and simple DVD which will play on any table top player. Guess which client group is predominant for us ? Guess which group has the lower sticker threshold and that we can't pass on our extra costs of DVD authoring media to ? Yep. You got it ! We're looking at the more affordable Panasonic DMR HS2 DVD Ram/DVD R table top recorder for our low end clients since it takes the cheaper general recording media and all operations of MPEG 2 encoding, menu creation and DVD burning can be done in real time. Now that's a money making solution for us !
I contacted Pioneer explaining the difficulties we were experiencing and suggested a trade up program or at least a decent break on a table top DVD recorder but they just blew me off and actually didn't bother to answer my second email. This is not the kind of after sales support I expected from a company trying to also sell their products to industry prefessionals ?? Frankly I'm really disgusted with them !!! :-( :-(


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codepath
Re: Why we recommend Pioneer over Sony.
on Apr 8, 2003 at 11:39:28 pm

New URL for that article.

http://www.smsmag.com/Archive/show_article.asp?ArticleID=704


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