DIY8 SNEAK PEAK!
We've just posted our DIY8 sneak peak. This is not a complete DIY guide. We have not even ordered the parts yet. I just felt it was important to share our research and where we think we are going on this next project.
Over the past couple of months we have been getting many calls and emails asking about our current DIY 7.7 system. We first built the Videoguys' DIY7 video editing workstation back in the spring of 2009 and it has seen a few changes since. Just take a look at the DIY7 timeline:
* April, 2009 - The Videoguys DIY 7 was originally configured running Windows Vista 64-bit on the Asus P6T motherboard with an Intel Core i7 920 processor.
* December, 2009 - We rebuilt the computer late last year, keeping the specs the same but running Windows 7 64-bit.
* April, 2010 - This spring Avid announced a special offer for Avid Liquid owners to upgrade to Avid Media Composer and we posted an article to help users migrate. With that article came an updated build list for DIY 7.7 that included the Asus P6t Deluxe V2 and the Intel i7 930 processor.
* June, 2010 - Later this Spring, with the release of Adobe Production Premium and Premiere CS5 and Avid Media Composer 5, we realized it was to start working on a new build. Over the past month, the Videoguys have started researching our DIY 8 parts list, and we invite you to follow the progress on the Videoguys' Blog, our Facebook Fan Page and/or the official Videoguys Twitter Feed.
* COMING THIS SEPTEMBER - Stay tuned for the completed DIY 8 details coming soon!
So check out the sneak peak http://tinyurl.com/27ngh7a and post your questions and any of your own experiences here.
You could get an i7-980 Hex processor at Newegg for $950 now and save the wait time for a below $500 processor and have much better performance. Why not try the Quadro FX3800 for better performance?
I rebuilt my Asus P6T Deluxe/Palm motherboard for Adobe CS5 Production Premium with a i7-980 processor, a Quadro FX3800, 12GB DDR3 1600 memory that will OC stabily at 4,000 MHZ. But, I am running it at 3,400 using Asus tools to keep it running cooler. I have cooled the processor with a Corsair HO-50 liquid cooler and it idles at 37 C and increases to 75 C with Prime 95 with a room temp of 78 F. Win-7 Ultimate is the OS. 3DMark Vantage shows the processor performance jumped 50% to a little over 32,000 versus the previous i7-965 processor. I was thinking about using an Asus P6T WS Pro but I saw an ad for 24GB of DDR3 1600 memory that was compatible with the P6T Deluxe but not the P6T WS Pro. I may wait on more memory until I find 12 GB of memory is not enough for CS5-PP.
I boot from a pair of Raid-0 Fujitsu 146GB 15K RPM SAS drives. An Areca ARC-1231ML raid controller handles 4 Raid-0 300 GB Raptors in a Supermicro CSE-M14T enclosure as my scratch drive with 424 MBs reads (870MBs burst speed from cache) and 380MBs writes as my mulitmedia scratch drive. 2 Supermicro CSE-M35T enclosures hold the 2 SAS drives, 5 Raid-5 1 TB Hitatchi drives for the raw video and multimedia content, and 3 Raid-5 WD 400GB drives for anything else needing storage. Audio is via a Creative XFi-elite, and a Hauppauge 1800 captures video. I put all this in an older modified Supermicro SC-801 AT case with 11 5.25" bays, 2 3.5" bays, and a 1,200W PC Power & Cooling power supply. The computer runs great but I am a novice with Adobe's CS5 Production Premium software. Now I have to face the tedious learning curve for CS5 Production Premium in order to fully use my AVCHD video files and some files dating back to mid-'90s ATI All-in-Wonder videos that none of the current graphic cards can decode. Will the CS4 Classroom in a Book series be compatible with CS5?
I enjoy your DIY write ups, and I am looking to similar tips about how to properly use the Adobe software I bought from VideoGuys.
I believe that ASUS has recently released the P6X58D-E which is almost the same as the Premium board. The only differences that I am aware of is that it has one LAN port instead of two, and tosses out the reset button on the mother board. And it is about $240 (newegg.com) which is about $50 less than the Premium. You might want to check this board out for your build.
I never built my own computer before, but I do know my way around inside one. I did have a question about your DIY systems though. That cost you estimate, would that be "turnkey" or would there still be cables and connectors and power supplies, etc.?
Please consider recommending an alternative hybrid hard drive (or drives for a Raid Zero array) .
I would, for the top system, also recommend 2 Blue Ray burners and a third (D) drive for storage apart from the boot drive.
I built the last system and found it very good.
I recommend that you consider a different case than the Antec Nine Hundred Two. I have its predecessor model, the Nine Hundred, and it was very cramped from front to back on the inside. As a result, graphics cards longer than 10.5 inches (this includes some of the high-end Fermi cards as well as some of the forthcoming new Fermi-based Quadros) will not fit inside the case at all. And its cramped innards also meant that newer regular-sized ATX motherboards with front-edge-mounted internal SATA ports (such a placement is so that the SATA connectors are completely out of the way of long internal expansion cards) must be completely dismounted from the mounting panel just to add additional internal SATA hard drives or optical drives since there is almost no space whatsoever to maneuver the SATA plugs into their ports (plus, some SATA plugs will not even fit that tiny space between the motherboard's edge SATA ports and the nonremovable drive cage support frame).
I also saw that the 902 needed cable extensions if you wanted to neatly bundle the routing. I was considering the NZXT Phantom ATX Full Tower instead of the 902. It has decent cooling. Do you have any insight?
You might also want to change the power supply unit. Since the Corsair TX750 came into the DIY build, many newer and better-quality power supplies were introduced - some of which cost about the same as or slightly higher than the TX750 (which, by the way, is getting a little long on the tooth and is due for an update).
The Hitachi 1TB 7200RPM 0A38016 that you recommended for the DIY8 seems to have been discontinued. It's no longer listed on Newegg and several of the other reputable sites.
Do you have any other recommendations?
I'm looking at a pair of these drives for the RAID 0 storage.
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
Any thoughts? I'm not brand sensitive, just price/performance.
jonjnichols: The Hitachi 1TB 7200RPM 0A38016 that you recommended for the DIY8 seems to have been discontinued. It's no longer listed on Newegg and several of the other reputable sites.
All versions of that WD1001FALS manufactured since November 2009 have the TLER permanently disabled. This means that the drive will always spin down, and then take much too long to spin back up. And when that happens, the RAID controller (yes, even the onboard RAID controller typically used for RAID 0) will report the drives as "failed" even though they are actually still good! This makes all recent versions of that drive totally unsuitable for use in any RAID array. In fact, they should be used only as single drives or JBOD. WD now requires you to purchase the much more expensive RE series drives just to even use a RAID array.
And don't bother running the WDTLER utility to set these newer Blacks. The utility will not work at all with these drives. The utility is meant for enterprise drives and older desktop drives manufactured before mid-2009.
And if those weren't enough, most currently in-stock versions of the WD1001FALS are actually as slow in sequential performance as the Hitachi (which, being a now-discontinued 7K1000.B series drive, has three platters like the WD1001FALS). That's because most versions of the WD1001FALS still use three 334GB platters (instead of two 500GB platters used in most other 1TB hard drives) - the exact same platter configuration as the original 1TB Black introduced in 2008.
Thanks for that heads up. That'll save me a world of headaches. So, back to the researching...
Any other items I should watch out for while looking for drives to setup in a RAID 0?
Is there a particular series of drives currently available that can recommend over others for this purpose?
Thank you again,
RJL0365:jonjnichols: The Hitachi 1TB 7200RPM 0A38016 that you recommended for the DIY8 seems to have been discontinued. It's no longer listed on Newegg and several of the other reputable sites.
this is simply not correct. while i dont use that exact drive i do use wd blacks.
the only reason to not use standard Sata (WD or others) is with parity raid (3/5/6) then you need to be concerned with this issue. Enterprise should be used then.
we sell hundreds of the WD 1002FAEX drives each month most of them on raid 0 most systems with 2 sets of the raid 0 (1 scratch 1 output set)
the added cache is nice to have.
Jcschild: this is simply not correct. while i dont use that exact drive i do use wd blacks.
You are correct. It's that certain firmware versions of the WD1001FALS that are so buggy (unfortunately, my particular unit is one of those that are affected by that bug) that they drop out even in a RAID 0 or RAID 1 configuration.
At any rate, the biggest reason that I don't recommend the WD1001FALS is that its maximum sustained throughput is as slow as those of the latest 5400RPM "power-saving" hard drives even though the WD1001FALS spins at 7200RPM. At least the WD1002FAEX is much more competitive in sequential throughput.
Could you (or anyone) please give some suggestions for a good power supply for this build. I'm just starting to order parts, and I'm not sure about the power supply. Thanks!
considering a properly built system would have at least an Nvidia GTX 470 and 5 HDDs (4 in raid) on an X58 with 12-24gig ram
minimum should be 900-1000w
geotony777: Could you (or anyone) please give some suggestions for a good power supply for this build. I'm just starting to order parts, and I'm not sure about the power supply. Thanks!
I'd suggest a Corsair HX850 or one of the more recently introduced SeaSonic 850W power supply units. This is so that the power supply has a little more breathing room for current and future higher-end components.
Scott, how can I get a quote on a system from you?
Thx. . .
the best thinig is to call and ask for Eric, Dave or I.
we are the 3 who do Video. the rest are audio geeks.
you can also go to the website and look thru the configs.
Thanks Scott, I need your web link or contact information.
Thx. . .
Bill at WKTBProductions dot com
just emailed you
it should be in my profile as well
Sandy Bridge is rumored to be launched at CES on Jan. 5 2011.
For those that dont know "Sandy Bridge" is Intel's newest chip, and will require a new chipset (new motherboard). It will be an upstep in performance to the current lineup...they will the second generations of i3/i5/i7.
Do yourself a favor and wait a 60 days if you can ; )
I cant wait to see DIY8.5 ; )
Great site with awesome advice guys, glad I ran into it as I will be building my own soon (after 01/05/11)
the Sandy Bridge releasing on Jan 9 is the replacement for the budget line
socket 1156. also mobile processors.
the big dog sandy bridge will not be until 4th quarter next yr.
so no need to wait unless you were looking at a budget line system...
and no they will not have 6 cores...
Early tests are showing the new 2nd generation i5 equaling or bettering the performance of the current i7's (except the i7 extreme). And thats without turbo!
I'll wait for that ; ) Heard 6 cores due out in Q2.
Api: Early tests are showing the new 2nd generation i5 equaling or bettering the performance of the current i7's (except the i7 extreme). And thats without turbo!
Sorry, but the new LGA 1155 platform will be limited to quad-core. It will also be limited in the total number of PCIe lanes (eight PCIe 2.0 full-bandwidth lanes in the P67, H61, H67, Q65 and Q67 PCH in addition to the 16 PCIe 2.0 lanes integrated on the CPU die). As such, this needlessly limits the performance of future PCIe hardware RAID cards that require the full x8 PCIe bandwidth to perform at their best, especially since most LGA 1155 motherboards will have a bunch of PCIe x1 slots, onboard PCIe-to-PCI-Legacy bridge controllers that steal some PCIe lanes and onboard NICs that steal one PCIe lane for itself. Plus, LGA 1155 will use the same old dual-channel memory controller setup as the current LGA 1156 CPUs; however, DDR3-1600 will be officially supported by certain LGA 1155 CPUs without the need for XMP profiles. Six- and eight-core CPUs will be reserved for the high-end LGA 2011 platform due out in Q4 2011.
As for SATA 6 Gbps and USB 3.0 support, all LGA 1155 chipsets except the entry-level H61 will include native SATA 6 Gbps support; however, without the inclusion of an onboard third-party controller, LGA 1155 motherboards with native SATA 6 Gbps support will include no more than two such ports, with four or five other SATA ports being limited to SATA 3 Gbps speed. (The H61 will be limited to four internal SATA ports unless a third-party SATA controller is added.) Still no native USB 3.0 support yet on the Intel chipsets; for that you'll have to wait for the X68 chipset for the high-end LGA 2011 platform due to be introduced in Q4 2011.
Would the ASUS ATI Radeon EAH4890 1GB DDR5 256-bit Graphics Card be a decent card to use for this build?
When does DIY8 go from sneak preview to release?
I just bought CS5 Production Premium and the Blu-ray bundle from you guys...now I need to build a system to support it. I've been waiting the last few months for the final build. Can I go ahead and use the spec DIY8 -budget spec as is...or should I be going back to the tested DIY 7.7?
Can't really wait much longer on this.
I've just bought all the bits 2 days ago and built it and it's running sweet!
I'm running CS2 so am forced to run win xp pro until I get my hands on cs5 and so I know I'm not making full use of my ram & all the other 64bit advantages, but that said, it's still lighting fast.
I'm seeing second generation i7 processors, like this on Tiger Direct, Intel Core i7-2600K BX80623I72600K Unlocked Processor. Quad core for $330. It uses the LGA1155 interface, not the LGA1366. Is this worth considering for DIY8?
firstname.lastname@example.org: I'm seeing second generation i7 processors, like this on Tiger Direct, Intel Core i7-2600K BX80623I72600K Unlocked Processor. Quad core for $330. It uses the LGA1155 interface, not the LGA1366. Is this worth considering for DIY8?
Not really. The LGA 1155 platform is still limited in the number of PCIe lanes. It, as I stated a few posts up, has a maximum total of only 24 PCIe 2.0 full-bandwidth lanes. The CPU itself has only 16 PCIe lanes, plus up to eight on the P67 PCH. Unfortunately, most motherboard brands (including Intel itself) opt to eat up two of those eight PCIe lanes on the P67 PCH with an onboard third-party USB 3.0 controller. And most of those brands also opt to eat up additional PCIe lanes with an onboard Realtek NIC and a PCIe-to-PCI bridge controller. That leaves only four PCIe lanes available on the P67 PCH for expansion - and on most of those systems, the PCIe x4 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIe x1 slots. Filling the PCIe x4 and even one of the PCIe x1 slots simultaneously will drop the bandwidth of the x4 slot down to x1! That will bottleneck any hardware RAID card that's inserted into the x4 slot. The only other alternative for a hardware RAID card would be to use the secondary x16 graphics card slot - but that would drop the bandwidth of the primary PCIe x16 graphics card slot to x8.
Therefore, if you are using a hardware RAID card, the LGA 1366 / X58 setup, although more than two years old, is still the best choice for now.
Hope this helps.
actually the 2600 at stock clock for adobe it beating a 980x stock.
mind you not by much but it is...
only drawback is the memory you are stuck @ 16gig vs x58 24gig.
for CS5 24 is needed if pro level
12 if hobbyest.
Jcschild: actually the 2600 at stock clock for adobe it beating a 980x stock.
The 2600 actually supports the still not widely available 8GB DDR3 DIMMs. This means that the Sandy Bridge platform supports up to 32GB of RAM. But for all practical purposes, the most RAM you can buy without having to spend an astronomical amount of money is 16GB (4 x 4GB). Currently, most 8GB unbuffered DDR3 DIMMs cost $200 to $300 per DIMM while 4GB DIMMs can be had for less than $50 a piece.
The previous Nehalem and Westmere chips are limited to 2GB per rank (and thus 4GB per DIMM).
yes i know about the 8 gig sticks... try finding some that are not ECC and yes the cost is still way up there.
I will be building a new system for Vegas Pro 10c.
I have not in the past used raid. Never heard it recommended for Vegas.
Would the new Intel Core i7-2600K 3.40 GHz Quad-Core Unlocked be good value for the money in this situation?
What graphics card would you recommend?
jredmond108: I will be building a new system for Vegas Pro 10c.
First off, the combination of an i7-2600K CPU and a good P67 chipset-based motherboard offers the best performance-to-price ratio of any currently available Intel or AMD platform: It beats the last-gen Nehalem i7 platforms selling for the same amount of money by a sizable margin while coming pretty darned close to the expensive hexa-core Intel processor-based platforms.
As for the hard drive(s), you don't necessarily need a RAID array for Vegas. However, I strongly recommend putting together a Vegas-ready system with at least three hard drives (the system and the media drives should be 7200 RPM or faster, while a third drive used for encoded output files can be 5400 RPM or even an external drive), or at least two 'conventional' hard drives if your system drive is to be an SSD. If your system uses only one hard drive for absolutely everything, the system performance would suffer so greatly that you might as well have used a very old Pentium 4 system for video editing. This is because the SATA (Serial ATA) hard drive interface is only a half-duplex bus (which means that data can travel in only one direction at a time, and cannot travel in both directions simultaneously), and that video editing and transcoding requires simultaneous reads and writes.
Third, for Vegas go with an Nvidia card with at least 1GB of DDR5 memory. DDR3-equipped cards and cards equipped with 512MB or less RAM will not perform as well. And forget about those cards that use DDR2 memory since they are very weak on the graphics horsepower.
Thanks for your help and guidance!
I'm graduating from school soon and am building a computer for NLE. I found the DIY8 specs and have chosen to give it a go. My one main question is with memory. The Asus manual for the ASUS P6X58D-E says it will only support 1 dimm per channel for either XMP or DDR1600 memory. I searched the forum and to see if anyone reported memory problems. Asus's support site has a year old post recommending a 3gig DDR 1333 dimm per channel.
Maybe I'm being too cautious because the Videoguys have really put some time and expertise in these guides, but I just need to confirm that the recommended CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX6GX3M3A1600C9 works or did I miss any forum posts that tell of the specific settings to get the most of the memory.
I’m considering Videoguys’ DIY8 budget build to run Avid Media Composer. Three hard drives, no raid system, and the GTX470 card. It seems the new I7 2600 processor would be superior to the specified I7 950. Anybody have experience with the I7 2600 and AMC? I f the I7 2600, or I7 2600k is a better processor choice, would an ASUS P8P67 PRO LGA 1155 be a good motherboard to pair it with? My goal is a good, reliable system for working with Sony handycam avchd footage. Thanks in advance for any help!
Actually, that is the official limitation imposed by JEDEC, the organization that sets specific standards for memory. Running more than 1 DIMM per channel of any memory faster than DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) with the i7-950 is chancy: Sometimes it works fine, sometimes your system might suffer from stability issues, sometimes your system might not even boot into Windows at all.
williamjohn: I’m considering Videoguys’ DIY8 budget build to run Avid Media Composer. Three hard drives, no raid system, and the GTX470 card. It seems the new I7 2600 processor would be superior to the specified I7 950. Anybody have experience with the I7 2600 and AMC? I f the I7 2600, or I7 2600k is a better processor choice, would an ASUS P8P67 PRO LGA 1155 be a good motherboard to pair it with? My goal is a good, reliable system for working with Sony handycam avchd footage. Thanks in advance for any help!
In your case, the i7-2600K is faster than an i7-950 at even stock speed, plus it can easily overclock to well past 4.0 GHz with the proper CPU cooling. The only problem with this LGA 1155 platform is the limited number of PCIe lanes. After accounting for the on-motherboard controllers and the PCIe graphics card, you have only four PCIe lanes open for additional expansion cards. And on this particular Asus mobo, the PCIe x4 slot (x16 length) shares bandwidth with the three PCIe x1 slots; if even one card is inserted into a PCIe x1 slot, the PCIe x4 slot will drop to x1 bandwidth. Normally, the limited number of PCIe lanes is not a problem unless you intend to install a higher-end hardware RAID controller card into the system. The only other place to put a RAID card is the secondary PCIe x16 graphics card slot (running in x8 mode), which would force the primary x16 slot to run in x8 mode.
A few high-end P67 motherboards implement a third-party PCIe lane repeater chip such as the PLX chip or the Nvidia NF200 chip. The trouble with those chips is that they do not increase the total PCIe bandwidth of that platform. Some of those repeater chips eat up the chipset's PCIe lanes, leaving absolutely no PCIe lanes open for expansion if even two PCIe graphics card slots are occupied. Other repeater chips work off of the CPU's integrated PCIe controller - but does not change the total bandwidth of the CPU's PCIe controller. So instead of 16 PCIe 2.0 full-bandwidth lanes, you'd end up with 32 PCIe lanes that are artificially restricted to PCIe 1.0 bandwidth (2.5 GT/s instead of 5.0 GT/s).
RJL0365, thanks for helping with that. I am learning all these different specs and sometimes my head gets sore.
Thank you, RJL0365, for your detailed response. It sounds like the I7 2600 is the way to go, given I don't plan on configuring raid. I'd read something about that elsewhere, but you explained it better. Much appreciated!
Just thought I'd let you know that I'm planning on ordering the following system withing the next week to develope into a NLE for the Adobe CS5 Suite.
i7 2600K + ASUS P8P67 Pro + EVGA GTX 570