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Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export

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T. Payton
Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 4:51:21 pm

So I was finishing up a project for a presentation in Hong Kong yesterday. Super tight deadline. I'm in the US, client is in Hong Kong. Everything looked good, reviewed my final edit twice. Then uploaded to YouTube direct from FCP X, at 720 p. Previewed the first few minutes and sounded and looked good. Added my transcript for closed captioning, updated the web site and then fired of a email to the client.

About 20 minutes later I hear from my client, he said the audio is "doubled" throughout and the talent is talking over himself. Huh? I knew it was perfect in the last review. I found the problem, and inactive Role. The draft VO was on a disabled Role. The VO was not itself disabled but rather the Draft VO Role.

So Be Forewarned: Disabling roles has effect on playback but not export.

Workarounds:
- If Sharing to YouTube, Viimeo, etc. Disable each clip individual to ensure it is not heard.
- Or just Export Media and the select roles as needed.

I'll send a bug repot to Apple, I would encourage all of us to do the same.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 5:25:29 pm

[Timothy Payton] "So Be Forewarned: Disabling roles has effect on playback but not export. "

Just curious, how were the Roles setup on export? Did you have some disabled clips sharing a Role, or were those broken in to subRoles?


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T. Payton
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 5:39:43 pm

Here is a shot of my roles just as I had them set when exporting. The problems came with "audio effect holders" still exporting.



------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 5:43:14 pm

What did the "Share" export window look like?


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T. Payton
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 5:59:39 pm

Posted to YouTube. There are no settings for Roles:



------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 6:03:27 pm

I see, so you weren't using Roles for export, really. If you exported a role based multitrack QT, and THEN encoded, what happens?

I see what you are saying. Just because a Role is dimmed doesn't mean the export is going to disable it. You need to use the Role to select all the clips, then disable on the timeline.

Great point.

Did the "section markers" and "other VO" get exported too or is it inconsistent like everything else?

Jeremy


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T. Payton
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 6:12:54 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I see, so you weren't using Roles for export, really."

Yes. Roles was used to disable and collapse items. We were planning on doing a multi-languge version of this video, so we will be using Roles for titles, etc. but for now just organization.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Just because a Role is dimmed doesn't mean the export is going to disable it. Y"

The problem here is that playback in FCP X disabled the Role, while export didn't obey that disabling.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Did the "section markers" and "other VO" get exported too or is it inconsistent like everything else?"

Actually those clips were individually disabled.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 6:46:41 pm

[Timothy Payton] "The problem here is that playback in FCP X disabled the Role, while export didn't obey that disabling. "

I think we are speaking the same language here, but FCPX distinguishes disabled and dimmed differently. The clips aren't "disabled" they are just dimmed and temporarily muted probably for playback purposes. To use a more familiar metaphor:

It's kind of like the track mute buttons in other softwares. You could mute a track, but it would still export all tracks. And since Roles are a tracks replacement, it is working the same. In order to turn of the Role (track) you must physically disable it, not just mute it.

At any rate, thanks for pointing this out.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 6:51:40 pm

Here's a picture for future readers (which is now the present if you are reading this).

Mute (which after exporting would result in all 4 channels being exported in either mixdown or discreet):



Disable (which after exporting would result in 3 channels being exported in either mixdown or discreet):



Jeremy


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Ryan Toyota
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Nov 11, 2013 at 6:17:48 pm

I was caught in the same type of situation as T. Payton. I was using roles to disable all of my b-roll audio and I didn't realize it would not export that way. There is no indication that unchecking roles is only a preview. They grey out when you uncheck them, looking like the second screenshot you posted. The bigger problem, however, is that there is no way to mute them using roles that I have found. If you find a way, please let me know. I'm almost done this project and I don't want to go through clip-by-clip and mute every single one.

I was hoping that roles would provide this functionality for me, but it appears that's not the case. FCP7 still wins this battle.


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T. Payton
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 2, 2011 at 7:30:38 pm

Jeremy - btw thanks for probing into this.

[Jeremy Garchow] "It's kind of like the track mute buttons in other softwares. You could mute a track, but it would still export all tracks. "

Exactly. Indeed my background is audio. If I was exporting raw tracks in a DAW then I would expect to see the option to export each track regardless of it being on mute.

However, if you export a MIX in a DAW it should (and does) obey your playback settings. I think anyone would assume than an export from FCP X, if it doesn't specify, would be creating a MIX. Do you agree?

[Jeremy Garchow] "FCPX distinguishes disabled and dimmed differently. "

It looks like Apple doesn't say alot about it in help. Only "on and off"

Turn roles on or off

1. In the Timeline Index, click the Roles button.
2. In the Roles pane, select the checkboxes next to the roles or subroles you want to turn on. Deselect the checkboxes next to the roles or subroles you want to turn off.
Active roles appear in color in the Timeline, and inactive roles appear gray. If you turn off all video or all audio roles, the respective portion of audio-video clips also appears gray.
3. To preview clips by role, play back your project. Only clips with active roles assigned play back.


I think Apple needs to make this cleaner and clearer in the export. We should have an option to "obey roles settings" for each Share option.

(As a side note this made me chuckle as I was thinking about he days of heavy ProTools work. Even though the computers were capable, when you did a "bounce to disk" you could only export in real time. I recall editing a half hour radio show and having to literally wait 30 minutes for the export to complete. So here I am complaining that a HD video, rendered and exported and took all of 20 minutes to complete. And on top of that was closed captioned in seconds by YouTube and played half way around the world just a few minutes later. I need to realize that we have some incredibly powerful tools at our disposal, and they are allowing us to work faster that we ever dreamed possible, and frankly I need to be thankful for that!)

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hidden Roles - Gotcha on Export
on Dec 4, 2011 at 12:43:38 am

[Timothy Payton] "However, if you export a MIX in a DAW it should (and does) obey your playback settings. I think anyone would assume than an export from FCP X, if it doesn't specify, would be creating a MIX. Do you agree?"

Yeah, it would seem so, but apparently FCPX isn't working that way. Not sure if this is an oversight or a feature. It's a feature in Legacy and just the way it works.

[Timothy Payton] "I think Apple needs to make this cleaner and clearer in the export. We should have an option to "obey roles settings" for each Share option. "

Yeah, that would make it more clear for sure, but then you'd have to differentiate between multitrack or not.

[Timothy Payton] "Even though the computers were capable, when you did a "bounce to disk" you could only export in real time. I recall editing a half hour radio show and having to literally wait 30 minutes for the export to complete."

Yeah, that always confused me. Realtime hardware, I guess, right? A feature of the package? :)

[Timothy Payton] "and frankly I need to be thankful for that!)"


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