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FCPX and C300 files

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Oliver Peters
FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 12:32:36 am

New FCPX library. Source media is UHD 23.98 MXF from a Canon C300 MkII. All files appeared to import fine, but some randomly showed up in the browser as only audio. Revealed the file in Finder and it was all OK - proper video with audio. Sources ("leave in place") on Jellyfish shared storage, library on local drive.

I didn't have time to troubleshoot the issue, so I dropped it and shifted to Premiere Pro where all was good.

Anyone run into this or have any thoughts on why this happened?

Mojave 10.14.6
FCPX 10.4.8

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 1:58:25 pm

I had some time to poke around in the files this morning. Apparently the files that do show up in FCPX are AVC-Intra/H264/10-bit. The files that show up only as audio are DNxHR/8-bit. So it's a codec support issue on the part of Apple. Why the camera op changed settings between takes is a mystery to me. Unless the camera switches automatically based on real-time or slomo recording.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 2:07:47 pm

[Oliver Peters] " Why the camera op changed settings between takes is a mystery to me. Unless the camera switches automatically based on real-time or slomo recording.
"


Uggh yea why people do stupid things.
A friend rented my RED last week and complained that the audio didn't record at all.
When I got the media back I noticed someone changed the settings to 25fps.
Since the RED project settings were set to 23.976, changing the fps puts it in Varispeed.
Apparently they wanted to match the target country PAL frame rate.
I have a sticker on my Scarlet that states "SCRATCH ME!".
Basically a reminder to place the scratch mics for onboard audio.
I now have to put a new one "LEAVE THE PROJECT SETTINGS ALONE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" :P
Sorry for dumping that on your post...just maddening I tell yaa!!


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 3:25:44 pm

I checked with the cam op and he did not overtly change settings. However, this was a run-and-gun situation and the two adjacent clips have a TC restart between. So most likely the camera was powered down in between and it automatically reset to DNxHR. This is either a default setting or a bug in the camera.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 3:29:00 pm

FWIW - I thought Apple had added back DNxHR support, but I guess only in MOV-wrapped files. Not helpful, as these are MXF and that's generally what apps using DNxHR will use. These files will not open with picture in QT Player, but they will in Switch.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 5:03:53 pm

Oliver, I started scouring the interwebs because I was intrigued that you got back a DNxHR file at all from the C300 MKii. I can't find that spec anywhere. I went to B&H first simply because it tends to be easier to find the specs than on Canon's site. Were they using an Atomos device?

I tend to use the MediaInfo app to really scrutinize media I have problems with to see it's full format information.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 5:40:22 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "I started scouring the interwebs because I was intrigued that you got back a DNxHR file at all from the C300 MKii. I can't find that spec anywhere"

OK, I've gotten to the bottom of this. I just found out that the camera operator at night resynced the clip with other audio and rewrote that back into the folder structure on the drive, thus overwriting the original clip. I'm not sure how he did that, but this retained the same file name, but unfortunately a different codec, which FCPX does not support. Damn, what a mystery!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 5:48:13 pm

Why in the world would a camera operator do that!?!?! That's the biggest mystery of all.

Glad you got it sorted out, and I've been stung by the lack of DNxHR support in FCPX. Even as an .mov, it doesn't support alpha channels. So the support isn't 100%. Hopefully that is fixed at some point in the future.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Mark Smith
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 11:48:49 pm

Wha? Pulling a stunt like what you described is way out of line


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 12:04:35 am

Despite my exasperation, this was good faith effort. The location audio was very noisy in places, so in order to get a head start - the cam op did some noise reduction/repair overnight while on location. The mistake was that he erroneously thought he had inserted the cleaned up audio (only) back into the files and wasn't overwriting the video.

Just another day in post ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 5:22:52 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - I thought Apple had added back DNxHR support, "

I think the plan is to eventually add back support. It's not here yet, though.

I think it will come in the form of a Pro Video format update.


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Joe Marler
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 3, 2020 at 5:58:10 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I think the plan is to eventually add back support. It's not here yet, though.
"


I thought that was for 64-bit DNxHD support starting with Catalina. Oliver is on Mojave. I don't have any camera native DNxHD but I exported some OP1A from Premiere in an MXF wrapper then re-wrapped to MOV with EditReady2, but FCPX 10.4.8 on Mojave and Pro Video Formats 2.1.1 would not take it.

Do you have to load some Avid codec pack like this one? http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Avid-QuickTime-Codecs-LE

I thought *that* is what went away with Catalina. Not just 32 bit codecs but ability to add 3rd party codecs via Quicktime extension mechanism so system-wide apps can use those. The initial plan of action was each app vendor could then write their own parser and include the deprecated codecs within their app, but this was later changed so certain 64-bit codecs would somehow be approved by Apple and either included with MacOS or field installed. I think 64-bit DNxHD codecs are planned for Catalina, just not here yet, but not sure that's Oliver's issue.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 12:38:28 pm

According to the support doc, DNx is not supported (yet):

https://support.apple.com/guide/final-cut-pro/supported-media-formats-ver28...

I do have the Avid codec packs installed, so it's not that. The odd part is that neither QT nor FCPX flags it as an unsupported codec or tries to convert it. These files are simply opened as audio.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 1:00:11 pm

The codecs aren’t released yet by Apple. Whether that’s Mojave or Catalina.

They, as I understand it; will be released by Apple just like XAVC and others are today in the Pro Video Formats update.

Avid Media Composer isn’t totally sanctioned for Catalina quite yet and is now in Public Beta and “Coming Soon”.

All formats are not supported on Catalina: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Media-Composer-File-...

But these same third party coded rules apply to fcpx as well, even on Mojave.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 8:04:12 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Avid Media Composer isn’t totally sanctioned for Catalina quite yet and is now in Public Beta and “Coming Soon”."

Just to be clear, that's currently in testing. When MC2020 is released there will be some missing components, which will be replaced by equivalents in subsequent versions. Avid has the additional challenge of trying to be forwards and backwards compatible - something other companies simply choose not to deal with. In any case, it makes a change to Catalina especially tough.

But that is all unrelated to this issue.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 8:17:39 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But that is all unrelated to this issue."

Well, kinda. Third party codec support is what we are talking about.

This isn't happening in FCPX. But "soon" Avid codecs will be a part of the codecs that Apple officially makes available to the OS.

I imagine this will be true on Mojave as it will be in Catalina.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX and C300 files
on Mar 4, 2020 at 8:29:07 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This isn't happening in FCPX. But "soon" Avid codecs will be a part of the codecs that Apple officially makes available to the OS."

Well, the codecs aren't the issue. It's actually the library dependencies that the player framework requires in order to play third-party codecs. I'm not sure whether that's being developed by Avid (or any other developer) or the QuickTime team itself. Apple has always had the codecs and I don't think the codecs themselves changed with the move to 64-bit. Only the library components.

Although I'm on Mojave, I no longer have any native 32-bit apps on this system. Of course, there are probably still 32-bit library components for the OS. I can open these files in any other non-Apple application. For example, Switch or VLC did not create their own library components to open files.

But the reason I said it was unrelated was not so much that FCPX can't open these files (although I wish it did) - it's that it incorrectly identified these files as audio-only, without any sort of error warning for an "unsupported format" or something like that. Same with QT.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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