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Eric Santiago
DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 4:47:53 am

I have a project (Library) that will not export via the Optimized/Original option.
Its find under Proxy but not the high res version.
This is the same project I was having Optical Flow Analysis issues with.
To date, this project will crash constantly when I choose Optimized/Original in View mode.
We were able to finish what we can under Proxy mode.
The whole Library is now intact into the single package.
Now the other issue is that under Proxy there are no missing file issues.
But in the other mode, I get the yield badge and having a hell of a time finding the missing files since the app crashes at every move.
I got to maybe three mouse clips before the beach ball comes up.
There are no RETIMED clips in this project and I wish there was a Safe Mode option.
I tried "REMOVE EFFECTS" and "DELETE GENERATED..." options in the past.
None of these work.
Again the PROXY mode seems to be fine.
I would not want to supply a broadcaster that version :P


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 6:28:31 am

Have you tried creating a new library and copying the project over to there. If it's stable long enough to let you do that, it's something that often fixes corruptions.

As far as the other goes, are you absolutely certain the original/optimised media is actually there? It sounds like the proxy is fine but the full resolution media is either missing or corrupted. I've certainly had projects crash because something has gone wrong with the original media files and I've had to restore them from a backup.

Another thought might be to try sending the project XML to something like Worx4 X and letting it re-render all the original files and create a new library.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 12:02:15 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "Have you tried creating a new library and copying the project over to there. If it's stable long enough to let you do that, it's something that often fixes corruptions."

Yes, that I have done in so many different ways.
I even as far as manually moving files via Finder as oppose to Consolidate.
I have four versions of this project on four different drives.
I thought I had it licked on the last drive but I forgot I had Proxy view on so it was all false.

Jeremy at the start the files collected into separate folders above the package.
Now I have them all in a package which leads to believe is futile.
If something goes terribly wrong with that Library then the whole lot is f***.
Also, Resolve is not letting it in via XML due to that.
I might have to rebuild this project by copying all the media to a new drive then manually replace each one somehow since FCPX tends to try and correct itself once it knows its missing a file.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 12:05:24 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "Another thought might be to try sending the project XML to something like Worx4 X and letting it re-render all the original files and create a new library."

Jeff, I will look into this.
Is it anything like XtoCC?


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 5:49:33 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "nother thought might be to try sending the project XML to something like Worx4 X "

Jeff do you know if the latest version works with RED media?
Read an old article from fcp.co and it states it doesn't.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 7:51:49 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Jeff do you know if the latest version works with RED media?
Read an old article from fcp.co and it states it doesn't."


I don't think it does, or MXF, or mp3, or many other formats. It's too bad it doesn't.

I still don't really know what's going on with your Library.

Obviously, there's some really weird shit going on. It doesn't seem right. I never keep media in the library. It's just too limiting.

When FCPX crashes, what warning does it give you?


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 11:44:46 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Obviously, there's some really weird shit going on. It doesn't seem right. I never keep media in the library. It's just too limiting.

When FCPX crashes, what warning does it give you?
"


Yea I've been using Library for Consolidate, my next move is to use a separate drive.

No messages just the beach ball then when you check force kill, FCPX is not responding.

Yes this is maddening and with Wor4x not working with RED, then Im pretty well out of ideas.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 12:32:18 am

When you force quit, you don’t get a pop up afterwords?

You don’t have to use FCPX to move media out of the library, just right click on the library and “Show Package Contents” and copy the Event folders out of there.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 3:37:06 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "When you force quit, you don’t get a pop up afterwords?

You don’t have to use FCPX to move media out of the library, just right click on the library and “Show Package Contents” and copy the Event folders out of there."


No error messages when I force quit.

Yea that's the Finder old school way for me.
I've only been doing the FCPX so the links wouldn't get so messed up.
I've had that happen too many times back in the day.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 12:51:25 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Sep 28, 2018 at 1:04:07 pm

I admit I am a bit confused of the workflow and methods.

There seems to be an over complication happening some where.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 1:06:08 pm

Also, have you used Media Cooy from Automatic Duck?

It takes an XML and copies the files to a chosen destination.

Good for getting only used files without using FCPX. It also works with other interchange formats.

http://www.automaticduck.com/#media-copy


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 1:53:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Also, have you used Media Cooy from Automatic Duck?

It takes an XML and copies the files to a chosen destination.

Good for getting only used files without using FCPX. It also works with other interchange formats.

http://www.automaticduck.com/#media-copy
"


I'm a big Wes Plate fan maybe Ill try this.

I did get word from Worx4 X that it does work with RED media.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 1:59:37 pm

Worx4x encodes new R3Ds?

Wow.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 2:09:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Worx4x encodes new R3Ds?
"


No, I believe it just copies it to a new destination similar to what FCPX does when you select Consolidate.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 2:47:54 pm

[Eric Santiago] "No, I believe it just copies it to a new destination similar to what FCPX does when you select Consolidate."

Indeed.

I think Jeff was suggesting to encode new instances of the movies, to get rid of any corruption.

Worx4X will do this on QT movies, but not much else.

Jeremy


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 3:03:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I think Jeff was suggesting to encode new instances of the movies, to get rid of any corruption.
"


I did so many versions of Optimized and honestly none of that worked.
To date, files would take turns on disappearing.
My experience with just sticking to RED media has always been the best workflow.
But these docs come in with so many odd formats it's just maddening.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 28, 2018 at 1:08:27 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I admit I am collletrlt confused of the workflow and methods.

There seems to be an over complication happening some where."


In the past, I would just break into the package and copy folders to duplicate my projects.
This was common and I never had any issues.
But now with Consolidate, you have the option to move files into a Library or external.
I first did the external not knowing it was going to create a folder outside of the Library.
At that time I was missing a ton of files due to a dead drive.
That's when I noticed the Optical Flow Analysis bug.
I avoided the bug by working in Proxy mode.
I fixed what I can and gave it back to the client to help populate the project again with missing files.
The client gave back the drive and to date the bug persists and trying to work in Optimized/Original is close to impossible.
Constant crashing is all I can do.
So I figured to finish the project in Proxy then hopefully XML into Resolve to avoid the bug for export.
I copied the Optimized/Original to a newer drive and created a new Library.
I then exported an XML from the suspect project and imported into new Library.
The bug is still there and this is honestly my fourth time trying this process.
I thought for sure with the client finding the missing files this would have been fixed.
There are no RETIMED clips in this project.
Maybe the bug has nothing to do with it but it sure seems to hang up on that when I switch to Optimized/Original.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 11:11:16 am

[Eric Santiago] "The whole Library is now intact into the single package."

Meaning everything is on one drive or the media is in the library and not external?


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 9:11:39 pm

This all sounds really weird. You said the XML failed to import into Resolve - what was it’s problem with it?

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 27, 2018 at 11:46:00 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "This all sounds really weird. You said the XML failed to import into Resolve - what was it’s problem with it?"

It comes up as an empty timeline.
I believe its due to the Consolidate in Library causing it.
I will extract the Original into an external drive and try that route.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 29, 2018 at 7:38:24 pm

Update:

With moving the original files to a new drive (basically out of the Library), I am able to access the files via XML to Resolve.
I will be able to finish this to its original target format.

Lesson learned. Do not use RETIME in FCPX!
I have never bothered to use it in the past and all HFR files from original film plates usually end up in After Effects (Timewarp) as far as my workflow goes.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 29, 2018 at 9:49:25 pm

Well, I feel like an idiot.
This again is what happens when you inherit files from clients.
No communication as to what they were using just the "can you fix this" workflow :P
It turns out the issue was not any RETIME options in the Project.
Its this stupid transition called FLOW.
Which uses Optical Flow Analysis.
This is so embarrassing after all the numerous posts and threads I've started due to this project ☹
The only reason I found this is after success with XML to Resolve I went back to an old project and started to dig around for Transitions used so that I can maybe replace in Resolve.

Thanks, folks for putting with this.
I hope I can repay all who contributed in the future.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 29, 2018 at 11:01:19 pm

Glad to hear you've got it working. That's not something I'd have thought of.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Sep 29, 2018 at 11:08:48 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "Glad to hear you've got it working. That's not something I'd have thought of."

Oliver Peters ran into that transition error last year.
Sucks that when I did the search "Optical Flow Analysis", I didn't get the "Flow" thread in COW :(


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Brett Sherman
Re: DOA Project
on Oct 1, 2018 at 12:35:43 pm

Yeah, Optical Flow is a buggy mess. Apple really needs to fix this. Just about every time I've had an issue with a timeline hanging, it's because of Optical Flow. Retime, stabilization and the Flow transition all use it.


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Oct 1, 2018 at 2:15:37 pm

[Brett Sherman] "Yeah, Optical Flow is a buggy mess. Apple really needs to fix this. Just about every time I've had an issue with a timeline hanging, it's because of Optical Flow. Retime, stabilization and the Flow transition all use it.
"


In the past I avoided it when using GoPro footage.
When Im using HFR with my RED I tend to lean on After Effects.
The parts the client wanted RETIMED actually rendered okay.
Mostly stock footage.
That stupid FLOW plugin added many hours to this project and I feel terrible having to charge for the forensic work ☹
How do you folks feel about that?


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: DOA Project
on Oct 1, 2018 at 7:58:54 pm

Personally, it’s rare I’d pass the cost of that sort of time on to the client. It’s not their fault there was a bug in the software I chose, or I decided on a workflow that didn’t go as expected, or I’m not as smart as I think I am and had to learn something new to get the job done - so I don’t expect them to have to pay for things like that.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Eric Santiago
Re: DOA Project
on Oct 1, 2018 at 11:40:34 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "Personally, it’s rare I’d pass the cost of that sort of time on to the client. It’s not their fault there was a bug in the software I chose, or I decided on a workflow that didn’t go as expected, or I’m not as smart as I think I am and had to learn something new to get the job done - so I don’t expect them to have to pay for things like that."

yea I get yaa.
same issue with camera/operator rental for me.
since the client has hired me in camera services, they get that if something fails they don't pay.
however, since its time lost/used they seem to be fine taking the hit.
I do give them a break similar to hardware use.
If they send me a drive to move files around, I charge a close to min wage (usually half of rate agreed) and no problems there.
as long as you communicate with them on what the charges expected, were usually close to the same numbers so no sticker shock.


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