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Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X

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Warren Freimond
Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Dec 13, 2017 at 8:22:53 am

I would like to know if anyone out there knows the trick behind retiming RED footage within Final Cut X if for example the shooting rate is 120 frames and the project frame rate is 25.
The question is: What percentage would I need to speed the footage up by in order to get to the Exact real time speed?

Thanks to all in advance
I look forward to some good advice


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Eric Santiago
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Dec 13, 2017 at 8:32:17 pm

Just drop the RED file into a 25fps Project.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Dec 13, 2017 at 8:34:58 pm

Oops I got button happy there.
120 fps divided by 25fps gives you 4.8.
Set it to 4X then play with the percentages.


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Jolene van Antwerp
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 9, 2018 at 9:19:19 am

Also having the same problem. I've tried importing the footage into Adobe Premiere, it automatically modifies to normal speed.
Where as in FCP X we have to retime manually. The percentage of retiming is not consistent. We've tried the auto speed option, which actually slows the footage down even more (120fps shoot rate at 25fps base rate in a 25fps timeline).

Wondering if the base rate is the reason why FCP X doesn't automatically normalize the speed of the clip?
Is there a work around for this, as we have to individually retime clips due to percentage not being consistent.

In the past we would use cinema tools to batch conform speed for our FCP 7 workflow.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Jolene van Antwerp
Wildlife Documentary Editor
South Africa, JHB



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 9, 2018 at 1:10:53 pm

What frame rate does the footage display in FCPX in the browser?


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Jolene van Antwerp
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 9, 2018 at 1:56:49 pm

Thank you for your quick response.

Video Frame Rate 25 fps

Shooting rate 120 fps

See image for screenshot of inspector info



Jolene van Antwerp
Wildlife Documentary Editor
South Africa, JHB



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 9, 2018 at 2:37:55 pm

And you put that shot in a 25p timeline and it plays back slow, right?

If you speed it up 480% it doesn’t look normal?


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Jolene van Antwerp
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 12, 2018 at 2:50:39 pm

Thanks for your response Jeremy.

I've retimed the the clip to 480% unfortunately it's not working. The movement is too fast, especially on slight camera movement or little things like the flow of water or bugs in the sky.

Speeding up to anything between 250% - 300% seems to work the best (according to my eye) But this doesn't make sense if you do the 120fps % 25fps = 4.8 calculation) Right?

Is there another way to establish the exact % speed increase for normal speed playback?

Jolene van Antwerp
Wildlife Documentary Editor
South Africa, JHB



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 12, 2018 at 11:16:12 pm

[Jolene van Antwerp] "especially on slight camera movement or little things like the flow of water or bugs in the sky. "

Yes, that’s because in order to play back real time, FCPX skips frames. Turn on “optical flow” so FCPX will interpolate between the skipped frames and smooth out the motion.


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Jolene van Antwerp
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 13, 2018 at 8:06:15 am

Yes, that definitely makes sense.

So the rate conform option in the inspector is not available (see screenshot). My sequence is set to 25fps, I wonder if it has something to do with the video frame rate of the RAW clip that is 25fps with a shooting rate of 120fps. Could it be that FCP is seeing it as 25fps, which is why it keeps 100% speed - which is actually slow motion 120fps.

I would actually like to do a test and set the video frame rate the same as the shooting rate (video rate 120fps & shooting rate 120fps), to see if FCP will automatically conform the speed when dropped into a 25fps sequence. Do you think this might work? Also, is there a possible solution for the footage that has a video frame rate of 25fps and shooting rate of 120fps?




Jolene van Antwerp
Wildlife Documentary Editor
South Africa, JHB



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 13, 2018 at 9:02:32 am

[Jolene van Antwerp] "Could it be that FCP is seeing it as 25fps, which is why it keeps 100% speed - which is actually slow motion 120fps."

That is exactly correct. The footage is “over cranked”.

[Jolene van Antwerp] "I would actually like to do a test and set the video frame rate the same as the shooting rate (video rate 120fps & shooting rate 120fps), to see if FCP will automatically conform the speed when dropped into a 25fps sequence. Do you think this might work? "

What would be the goal? I’m not sure if the camera will allow a project rate of 120fps, but even if it did, at some point you will have to place the footage in a 25fps timeline. So if you put 120fps footage in a 25fps timeline, FCPX will skip frames to play it back, so it is essentially the same thing as speeding up the 120fps @ 25 footage. When shooting 120 or slow motion, all of the motion characteristics of each frame will look different than if you would have shot at 25fps originally. Each frame will have less motion blur as there is less motion per frame, if that makes any sense. Each frame, essentially, is more “sharp” which is why it doesn’t look right to your eye when speeding it up. The motion looks somewhat unnatural. Another way to put it is that a bug flying in the sky will move a greater distance in one frame of 25fps footage than 120fps footage resulting in more motion blur. I would definitely encourage you to test because it’s fun! ☺ You can play with different shutter speeds to effect motion blur per frame. At some point, you will need to decide f you are shooting for slow motion or regular motion. It looks like you work in wildlife, so you probably want it all! 😉 Which is completely understandable, by the way.

With your current footage, I would turn on optical flow and you should see a difference in the motion. To do this, you put the footage in the timeline, speed it up 480%, and then go to the retiming wheel and choose Video Quality > Optical Flow and let FCPX analyze the footage. Like this:





Jeremy


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Mark Smith
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 13, 2018 at 11:22:45 am

Adding on to Jeremy’s last post-
At 25 FPS the camera shutter would nominally be 1/50 second which would become a key factor in characterizing motion blur of any movement in the frame. At 120fps, shutter speed would be 1/240 second so motion blur for each frame would be greatly reduced compared to the 25 fps scenes.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Retiming clips from RED camera files in Final Cut X
on Mar 13, 2018 at 12:27:05 pm

[Mark Smith] "At 25 FPS the camera shutter would nominally be 1/50 second which would become a key factor in characterizing motion blur of any movement in the frame. At 120fps, shutter speed would be 1/240 second so motion blur for each frame would be greatly reduced compared to the 25 fps scenes."

Precisely.

Then, Jolene, if you adjust the shutter speed when shooting 120fps to introduce more motion blur, you may not get as pleasing of an image when playing back slow motion, and then when speeding back up to real time, the image may appear super blurry. This is why interpolating motion blur on sped up 120fps may be idea. You can also check out Re:Vision’s ReelSmart motion blur which is excellent software for this: http://revisionfx.com/products/rsmb/

Jeremy


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