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Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?

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Noam Osband
Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 11, 2016 at 4:43:12 pm

I just started using Neat Video but to export films takes forever....is that just the nature of the beast or is there something I'm missing? I'm guessing it's the former.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 11, 2016 at 6:15:06 pm

[Noam Osband] "is that just the nature of the beast"

Yes.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 11, 2016 at 6:41:35 pm

What version of Neat and what computer?

The latest version takes full advantage of the GPU and you can run a test and save a profile that is optimized to your machine.

Yes, it's a decently heavy render, but it's much faster than it used to be, especially on dual GPU MacPros.


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Joe Marler
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 11, 2016 at 11:28:52 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "The latest version takes full advantage of the GPU"

Neat Video can use some GPUs, but it did not support the M295X or M395X GPU used in iMacs until (I think) the recent 4.20 version. In the Neat Video plugin interface within FCPX, selecting Tools>Preferences>Performance allows selecting either CPU or GPU rendering or both, and informs you whether GPU rendering is available for your particular GPU.

On my top-spec 2015 iMac 27 with 4Ghz i7-6700K and M395X, using CPU rendering took about 5.1 minutes to process 8.8 *seconds* of 4k material. Using GPU rendering improved this to 3.3 minutes. Using CPU+GPU rendering it took 2.9 minutes. This is using the latest 4.20 version of Neat Video.

So the main lessons are:

(1) Update to the latest version of Neat Video. Within the Neat Video interface, you can check for the latest version with Tools>Preferences>Check Now.
(2) Likewise use Tools>Preferences>Performance to select GPU or CPU+GPU rendering.

We can see from the above that some effects are very compute intensive. While GPU rendering can improve things, on 4k material it will not become rapid. I have also tested this on my 2015 top-spec MacBook Pro which has a 2.8Ghz i7 and a M370X GPU. In that case GPU rendering only slightly improved Neat Video performance. The M370X is not a fast GPU but it's only competing against a 2.8Ghz CPU so that's a pretty low bar.

It's a similar situation with Digital Anarchy's Flicker Free, which can miraculously remove flicker, such as from fluorescent lights or exposure stepping. However it is extremely slow to run, taking 4.6 minutes for 8.8 seconds of 4k material. It does not use GPU acceleration but if Neat Video is any guide doing so might only improve things by 2x, which would still be very slow. So the goal is get the video right in the field and minimize use of complex, time-intensive fixes in post: http://www.digitalanarchy.com/Flicker/main.html

I have tried Photon Pro, which is much faster and cheaper than Neat Video but the results are not nearly as good: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/photon-pro/id912539173?mt=12


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Noam Osband
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 12, 2016 at 5:41:50 pm

I bought it a week ago so I'm pretty sure it's the newest version. It's 4.2.0

I looked in preferences and apparently, as it says, "No computation-capable GPU devices found." I'm using a late 2013 MPB fwiw.

Any other way to make it faster or just get used to being patient?


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Joe Marler
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 12, 2016 at 10:14:14 pm

[Noam Osband] "I looked in preferences and apparently, as it says, "No computation-capable GPU devices found." I'm using a late 2013 MPB fwiw.

Any other way to make it faster or just get used to being patient?"


The 2013 MBP had an optional GT-750M discrete GPU. Does yours have that option? If so then apparently Neat Video just doesn't support it. If your MBP does not have the GT-750M then you have no discrete GPU to use.

However my tests on my 2015 MBP with AMD R9 M370X did not show a major improvement when using Neat Video's GPU rendering. Therefore even if Neat Video supported the discrete GPU on your 2013 MBP, it would probably not make a big difference.

Neat Video allows tweaking a few performance-related parameters and testing the performance without actually running a pass on your clip. This is under Tools>Preferences>Performance>Check Performance. It gives you the number of frames/sec your selected parameters achieved.

At that same place under "Optimize Settings" it allows running a test which will recommend the best configuration of CPU cores and (if available) GPU. You just press the "Start" and it runs the test, giving you the option of accepting the results.

For many effects using proxy will improve performance except for the final export. However for some reason it appears Neat Video always applies the effect to the original resolution material, even in proxy mode. You can also reduce the number of bits per color channel and resolution under "Optimize Settings" but I don't know how that affects the results, performance or quality-wise.

Neat Video is just very compute intensive and slow to run. This gets much worse on 4k which has 4x the number of pixels as 1080p, hence the run time is about 4x as long. Besides the above items your only other option is getting a faster computer. This is the kind of thing a Mac Pro with the highest GPU option would help with.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 13, 2016 at 2:01:18 am

[Noam Osband] "I looked in preferences and apparently, as it says, "No computation-capable GPU devices found." I'm using a late 2013 MPB fwiw.

Any other way to make it faster or just get used to being patient?"


Is that a 13" with the built in GPU?

If so, you can still optimize the performance by running the test in the Neat Video prefs.

It can determine the optimal amount of CPU cores to throw at the render.

My MacPro tube gets about 6fps render times on 4K material and its split between 11 cores of CPU and 70% of each of the two GPUs.


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Joe Marler
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 13, 2016 at 1:58:59 pm

There is also a separate command-line Neat video benchmark which can be run without installing the product. Like the GUI tool within Neat Video, it runs all combinations of CPU cores and GPU, showing the frame rate achieved by each. Unfortunately it seems hard-coded to 1080p but at least that provides a comparison number.

On my 2015 iMac 27 the best number was 5 CPU cores + the M395X GPU, giving 11.2 frames/sec on 1080p

On my 2015 MBP, the best number was 5 CPU cores + the M370X GPU, giving 8.0 frames/sec on 1080p

https://www.neatvideo.com/nvforum/viewtopic.php?t=1123


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Noam Osband
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Sep 21, 2016 at 12:47:29 pm

Thanks for all the helpful info guys. I didn't know about the optimize setting. I appreciate it!


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Kevin Hinsdill
Re: Neat Video just takes forever to render, correct?
on Oct 18, 2016 at 3:33:00 pm

Additional Information for people looking after OP:
  • I have a 15" MacBkPro Mid 2014 with Top Specs (2.8 i7 16GM 1600Mhz DDR3 and 1TB Solid State HD).
  • I purchased Neat Video Pro 4.2.0
  • It did not recognize my GPU (GT 750M)
  • Recommendation was to update NVIDIA CUDA driver, which was very difficult to find:
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/mac-driver-archive.html

  • Installed current driver: Latest Version: CUDA 8.0.46 driver for MAC Release Date: 10/3/2016
    (Requires min compute power of 1; the above card is 3, so it is compatible).
  • Rebooted computer, Neat Video Preferences-Performance-GPU Troubleshooting - Manually selected Enable NVIDIA, closed & restarted FCPx.
  • Ran Optimizing Performance several times, it never picked the GPU or combo of CPU/GPU.
  • Best results was CPU only 7 or 8 cores about 27frames per sec (32bits 872x486i).

  • Moral of the story, use Neat Video for great clean up, don't bother updating CUDA. Go mow the lawn and get a good night's sleep while it renders. Cheers, Kev.


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