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Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)

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Yair Bartal
Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 2, 2016 at 7:00:49 pm
Last Edited By Yair Bartal on Sep 2, 2016 at 7:07:24 pm

Is that considered a re-wrap that does not involve a quality loss or a decode/encode process that does involve a quality loss?


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 2, 2016 at 9:59:15 pm

As far as I know, ingest is essentially a rewrap. Exporting would logically be a reencode as you can't just rewrap if you're doing something like joining two clips together or adding effects and titles.

(For some reason I can't edit my own posts so apologies in advance for the stupid mistakes and bad English that I can't go back and fix)

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Melbourne, Australia | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Yair Bartal
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 6:25:05 am

Thanks Jeff, what I meant was with no editing, let's say ingesting just one clip from an AVCHD(h.264) SD card and export that one file to a QuickTime(h.264). So my question still holds: Is that a re-wrap with no quality loss or a decode/encode process with potential quality loss.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 6:42:23 am

I'm going to say it's a reencode. That single clip scenario would happen so rarely that I can't imagine it being something FCPX would do. The way to test would be to keep importing and exporting generations of the same clip over and over again to see if it degrades. If it's just rewrapiping, there should be no loss of quality no matter how many times you did it.

-----

(For some reason I can't edit my own posts so apologies in advance for the stupid mistakes and bad English that I can't go back and fix)

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Melbourne, Australia | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Yair Bartal
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 8:54:42 am

Thanks Jeff, still I'm looking for a more definite info, specifically if one does need tools like ClipWrap/EditReady for re-wraping or this can be done within FCPX.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 10:57:14 am

I don't think you'll find any definitive answer. Larry Jordan blogged something not so long ago, posing a similar question and nobody could say for sure. The only way to know is for someone who cares to run the test I mentioned. Or maybe an Apple engineer could answer the question if you contacted support.

On ingest FCPX won't do anything different to Clipwrap / Editready. They all just rewrap the footage into a container that is more easily accessible than AVCHD. Ingest into FCPX and copy the resulting clips out of the media storage folder and you've done exactly what clipwrap would do for you.

What happens if you import and clip and immediately export it again from an FCPX timeline is anybody's guess short of finding one of the two options I mentioned above.

Still, If you do get a definitive answer, I'd be interested to know what it is.


------

(For some reason I can't edit my own posts so apologies in advance for the stupid mistakes and bad English that I can't go back and fix)

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Melbourne, Australia | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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John Rofrano
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 3:19:21 pm

AVCHD is a very specific subset of the MPEG4/AVC H.264 specification. The only way that FCP X could re-wrap any video is if the specifications of the source file matches the specifications of the target file exactly. Considering that I don't even see any way to generate an AVCHD file with both video and audio from FCP X or Compressor 4, I'm going to say with some certainty that the QuickTime file FCP X produces will definite be a render and not a re-wrap and will not conform to the AVCHD specification of the source.

If you just want to rewrap AVCHD files buy EditReady. It works wonderfully at doing this. Worth every penny.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Gary Huff
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 3:25:10 pm

[John Rofrano] "I'm going to say with some certainty that the QuickTime file FCP X produces will definite be a render and not a re-wrap and will not conform to the AVCHD specification of the source."

It is not a render, it is a re-wrap. I have already been through this on the Premiere Pro forum and have tested it myself. FCPX re-wraps AVCHD into individual QuickTime clips upon import when you ingest the media into the library instead of just leaving it in place. The process is much too quick to be a re-encode.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 3:49:42 pm

I don't think anyone's disputing that it's a rewrap on import. It's whether exporting that same clip would be a rewrap as asked by the original poster. I don't think he's asking for FCPX to output AVCHD, just if nothing else changes, would FCPX just export the rewrapped file or would it render?

It's a bit of an academic question as it's not something you ever want to do in the real world.

(For some reason I can't edit my own posts so apologies in advance for the stupid mistakes and bad English that I can't go back and fix)

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Melbourne, Australia | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Gary Huff
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 4:26:12 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "I don't think anyone's disputing that it's a rewrap on import."

I think John's response didn't make that clear if that's what he's saying. Of course, on export it will always be a re-encode, because that's how LongGOP works. But I'm pretty sure he was referring to ingesting AVCHD into FCPX to begin with, because that is the current point of contention.


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John Rofrano
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 6:53:18 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Sep 3, 2016 at 7:05:46 pm

[Gary Huff] "But I'm pretty sure he was referring to ingesting AVCHD into FCPX to begin with, because that is the current point of contention."
No, that's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to FCP X export from the timeline which would be a render and not a re-wrap.

I was further stating that it wouldn't even be AVCHD anymore. It would just be a rendered QuickTime file with some form of AVC/H.264 in it that wasn't AVCHD compliant.

I agree that on ingestion the files are simply re-wrapped.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Gary Huff
Re: Ingesting AVCHD(h.264) files into FCPX without transcoding using either "Copy to library" or "Leave files in place" then exporting to QuickTime (h.264)
on Sep 3, 2016 at 7:18:48 pm

[John Rofrano] "I agree that on ingestion the files are simply re-wrapped."

Thanks for clarifying that.


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