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Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?

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Tangier Clarke
Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 1, 2016 at 8:04:55 pm

Folks I am curious how you'd go about handling this one.

Assistant editor synchronized audio and video to a custom frame size and frame rate different than the source video clip. These clips were edited into the timeline. I want to use resynced clips using the correct frame size and frame rate to replace those done wrong.

Obviously I hope this was done by accident, although one would have to select "custom settings" in the synchronize window to even get this to happen.

I am concerned because FCP X is pretty strict about it's file associations.

Here's a better picture:
clip1 - 1920x1080 59.94
audio 1 - 48Khz

resulting synced clip: 1280x720@23.98


Is there a way to swap these files out none too painfully?

Tangier


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Noah Kadner
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 1, 2016 at 8:21:30 pm

confused- what is the timebase/resolution you want everything to be at?

Noah

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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 1, 2016 at 8:57:26 pm

They synced clip should have been the same size and frame rate as the original video clip.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 12:00:43 am

You should be fine with just leaving it like that unless you are leaving FCP X to go to sound and color. The downside is that FCP X will want to render those clips.

Sharing a master FCP X seems to factor in the original source clip's frame size and frame rate plus the timeline settings and skips the clip settings.

I've done tests and I haven't been able to get it to matter what the sync'd clip is set to within FCP X on the timeline.

If a 1080i 29.97 HDV clip and make it a 540p 23.98 clip it plays like it's those settings. If I put the same clip in a 1080 59.94 timeline and lay it on top of the same clip that is set to the native clip settings they are identical.

Every frame I skip through is there on the 60p timeline, even though the clip is set to 23.98.

The other option is you can break apart the clips which isn't deal.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 4:19:01 am

Yeah, I was going to consider doing what you suggested - leaving it in place. Since a synced clip isn't really a standalone file, I figured I wouldn't loose quality by having the synced 1280x720 clip on a 1080 storyline. I hope that is the case since the 1080 clip is what's actually in the synced clip. Not totally sure how FCP X handles this other than rendering. Not sure if it's then possible to change the settings of the synced clip to match the clip inside it either.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 5:54:57 am

[Tangier Clarke] " Not totally sure how FCP X handles this other than rendering. Not sure if it's then possible to change the settings of the synced clip to match the clip inside it either."

It seems on export only the native clip resolution and frame rate matter in relation to the export settings. I haven't been able to break it.

What I did to test it was I synchronized the fake clips, made the resolution 960 by 540 and 23.98 even though it was HDV 1440:1080 60i/29.97i footage.

I put the clips in a 1080p 59.94p project and then overcut the original untouched HDV clips. By enabling and disabling them I couldn't see a difference. I then exported the fake 23.98 540p synchronized clips as a ProRes 422 at the project settings of 1080p 59.94 as well as the untouched HDV versions of the clips

I couldn't see a difference at all in a split screen. Although it's not confirmed in the manual, it seems you should be fine leaving it be.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 5:56:28 am

I appreciate the testing. Thanks.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 6:26:34 am

[Tangier Clarke] "I appreciate the testing. Thanks."

It was for a previous situation but I did double check it was still true in the current version.

Phew.

To be 100% sure you could break apart the clips before you color which does revert them to the file native settings.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 4:24:33 am

I will say though that in this process I noticed something the assistant editor did I've never seen anyone do before - use two tracks of audio in a compound clip to sync with the video. To my surprise that registers all of the audio in the inspector to be able to toggle off and on.

Generally if there is more than one track of audio I make a multicam clip because making a synchronized clip does not give me the ability to toggle multiple audio in the inspector on and off.

I still wouldn't use compound clips this way, but it was an interesting approach.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 11:12:37 am

I report this to apple as there is something weird with Synchronized clips, especially when processed with XML.

I routinely shoot in 4K with 1080 deliverables. I reframe and use the extra pixels a lot. For whatever reason synchronized clips inherit the timeline settings, so that means my 4K clips are now 1080 to FCPX. It does not allow me to reset spatial conform, and it causes problems in the XML which spoofs 4K clips for 1080 clips.

Darren may be right that leaving it is OK, but it would be great if you could let Apple know of these issues.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 5:31:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "For whatever reason synchronized clips inherit the timeline settings, so that means my 4K clips are now 1080 to FCPX. "

How are the clips being synchronized? Last year there was an issue with Sync N Link that was doing this, it ended up being a problem going to Resolve. I had to break apart the clips and re-reframeā„¢ to fix it.

The other odd one is 5K Red Epic footage when synchronized is set to the stock FCP X 5K resolution which causes vertical black bars on the sides. I have to manually enter 4800 by 2700 on each clip to fix it.

When I manually sync clips in FCP X I have to leave custom settings on to make sure the native clip settings stay put for certain formats. Not ideal but it works.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 6:41:25 pm

[Darren Roark] "How are the clips being synchronized?"

Anywhere, but the synchronized clips have to come in from FCPXML. It's a real pain. Sync N Link is effected as it uses FPCXML, but the problem is with FCPXML or FCPX itself.

You can export an FCPXML of an X synchro'd clip, reimport that XML, and get the same results. Something is awry.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 6:52:57 pm

Does this happen when you just create a sync'd clip in FCP X?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:06:38 pm

Create a sync'd clip. Export an XML of that clip, reimport that XML, and the problem is there.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:28:37 pm

Just tried it, did the clip itself, the clip in a project and an event with the clip in a project. I can't get it to do this. Could it be something about the file format of the clips? These are 5K Red epic clips that I had to manually set the weird resolution.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:49:03 pm

Are you just trying to see how it fails? Here's the steps (video not attached, but you can make your own):

Summary:
Synchronized clips can behave differently if they've been roundtripped through XML (using Sync-N-Link X for example) vs those that have not been exported/imported. The steps below do not use Sync-N-Link X.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Make a new Library and import the attached media containing a single video and audio clip with for syncing. Note that the inspector shows the video is "3840x2160 | 23.98p" which matches the XML's format "FFVideoFormat3840x2160p2398"
2. Synchronize clip (using audio).
3. Select the synchronized clip and export XML.
4. Import this XML into a new Event. Note that the synchronized clip shows as "3840x2160 | 23.98p".
5. Make a new Project with settings 1080p, 23.98p
6. Edit the XML-roundtripped synced clip into the Project. Note that the synchronized clip has changed to "1920x1080 | 23.98p" in the inspector and 1080p, 23.98p in Modify Settings.
7. Edit the original synchronized clip (before roundtripping) into the Project. Note that this synchronized clip is "3840x2160 | 23.98p"


Expected Results:
The Synchronized clip should remain 4k in the Project, despite the round trip.

Actual Results:
The Synchronize clip assumes the frame size properties of the Project in which it is placed.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 2, 2016 at 8:27:10 pm

Yep, it does that. Yikes, I thought this was a SnL issue but sure enough it did this even with a manually sync'd clip.

I turned over a 2X Red cam feature to Resolve and I had to set the project settings to the highest res clip for the reframing to come through in Resolve and even then not everything came through. (I fixed everything not knowing the place was just going to send it from Resolve to Lustre after transcoding to 2K DPX so it was all for not.)

Thanks for posting this.


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Craig Alan
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 5, 2016 at 4:30:34 pm

This is a bit OT: but doesn't the assistant editor follow the choices defined by the editor: technical and organizational ?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 5, 2016 at 5:12:19 pm

[Craig Alan] "This is a bit OT: but doesn't the assistant editor follow the choices defined by the editor: technical and organizational ?"

Just like people FCP X ain't perfect. This is just one of those things that an eye needs to be kept on.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 2:11:47 am

This is true and it's odd this happened. It hasn't happened before. However this assistant, who primarily uses Premiere Pro, is still getting used to FCP X. Something got mixed up in this process.

I am sure many of us experienced folks miss a beat here and there even in our routine. This is definitely a tricky one to me because you really have to manually tell FCP X to do this. It's done now so moving forward.


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Craig Alan
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 4:04:01 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "you really have to manually tell FCP X to do this. It's done now so moving forward."

I don't use adobe NLE but its likely that in that program you have to manually choose these settings liked you did in FCP legacy. Or at least that's what I remember: choosing the codec and settings for that timeline.

FCP X by default likes to do things for you.

Mixed feelings about that.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 4:06:00 pm

[Craig Alan] "Mixed feelings about that.
"


Not only that, it's really hard to get yourself out of a jam should someone, anyone at any experience level, make a mistake.

I don't have mixed feelings about that, FCPX should be more flexible. It would also allow for more advanced workflows with relinking and reconnecting to subsets of other media.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 4:53:05 pm

The automatic methods of FCP X have not been a problem for me. However, I too wish there were more options with relinking as well as better reporting of what's actually happening when FCP X is doing things rather than just a percentage number and progress bar.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 11:32:11 pm
Last Edited By Darren Roark on Jun 6, 2016 at 11:50:50 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "better reporting of what's actually happening when FCP X is doing things rather than just a percentage number and progress bar."

I can't help with the relinking part but if you open the background tasks and toggle the arrow you can see what it's doing.

On a Vimeo export for example you can toggle another arrow and it will show the encoding and uploading status bars.

screenshot2016-06-06at4.29.25pm.jpg


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:27:22 am

I am aware of those. Thanks.


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Darren Roark
Re: Swapping out wrongly synced footage in timeline - how?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:55:03 am
Last Edited By Darren Roark on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:59:16 am

Ahh, my mistake. What info would you like to be able to see that isn't shown?

Source timecode would be nice.


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