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7toX workflow issues

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Eric Santiago
7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 11:55:58 am

Ive been dealing with this tv series shot with a C100 at 25fps and a Zoom for the last week.
I cant seem to get the audio to play nice in FCPX after 7toX.
I notice an orange line over a few areas mostly compound clips since a of nesting was going on.
The audio is there but slips a great deal in some places.
Should I avoid nesting and leave it all in the main sequence?
Its a 13 episode series and really wished it would cleanly import into FCPX.


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Oliver Peters
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 11:58:54 am

Nesting is evil and should be avoided at all costs. ESPECIALLY when going to other apps. You might want to drop Philip and Greg a line to see if they have any insight on this.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 1:20:15 pm

Did the project start in Pr or where is the XML from?


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Bill Davis
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 4:10:39 pm

[Eric Santiago] "The audio is there but slips a great deal in some places."

Big red flag that immediately sends me to check out the status of the underlying clips sample rate settings.

90% of audio slippage I've encountered has led back to some stage of footage preparation where audio was recorded with OTHER than standard 48khz audio sample settings.

It's not ALWAYS the issue, but is often enough that it's the FIRST thing I confirm.

YMMV.

New signature under construction and coming soon. Please stand by...


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Noah Kadner
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 7:21:00 pm

What is your task on the show? Was it started in 7 and now you have it or the producers expect you to go back and forth with another editor using 7?

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 8:10:01 pm

After talking with client it seems the first episode was started in Premiere then ended up in FCP7.
The rest of episodes were started/finished in FCP7 and yes all sections are nested neatly but I guess in the end a nightmare going forward.
I also see attempts at using PluralEyes gone wrong.
Seems the audio team reformatted the Zoom SD card daily and every so often I see a clip e.g. AUDIO.004 being used in numerous episodes and parts all sitting in the wrong section.
And if you do a search for AUDIO.004 you will find a dozen named the same :P
Ive been away from FCP7 for tool long and its a struggle to get all this together.
Thanks guys for the tips and Ill keep at it till head explodes :)


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Noah Kadner
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 10:31:33 pm

My suggestion would be to either cut in 7 or start from scratch in X. In the long run it will be more efficient and you won't end up at Arkham Asylum.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 4:33:01 pm

[Noah Kadner] "My suggestion would be to either cut in 7 or start from scratch in X. In the long run it will be more efficient and you won't end up at Arkham Asylum."

I will have to with some of the episodes but will stay in legacy :(

Your bang on about Arkham cause this app (after 5 years in FCPX) is like pulling teeth at every click :P


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 4:35:19 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Your bang on about Arkham cause this app (after 5 years in FCPX) is like pulling teeth at every click :P"

Isn't it crazy? I was going some editing in 7 the other day, and completely blown away at how slow I was.

I kept reaching for a skimmer that wasn't there, and you mean to tell me I have to select all the clips and move them????!?!?!?!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 10, 2016 at 10:52:27 pm

[Eric Santiago] "And if you do a search for AUDIO.004 you will find a dozen named the same :P"

I don't know if you have the FCP7 project, but you could edit the names of the audio files, like Audio004_File01, Audio004_File02, or whatever. This should also rename the clips in the timeline as long as they are connected to the master clip.

Right click on the file in the Browser, and choose Rename > File to Match Clip. You will get a warning about modifying the source file, you say yes.

Export XML out of 7.

Translate it.

Reconnect in FCPX, and you should have an easier time.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 4:35:09 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I don't know if you have the FCP7 project, but you could edit the names of the audio files, like Audio004_File01, Audio004_File02, or whatever. This should also rename the clips in the timeline as long as they are connected to the master clip."

Hey thanks thats a great tip.

The hunt for missing files go deeper now as I go from episode to episode.

The worse part about all this is that the original editor worked off 6 USB 3 drives.

Its been quite a hellish project :P


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Darren Roark
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 5:31:53 am

Do you have the FCP 7 project and is the media Canon MXF? If so let FCP X rewrap them to QT's via the import window, relink those in FCP 7, 'un-nest' any nested items and try 7toX again.

Be sure to import the 7toX XML to the library with the footage you had FCP X rewrap. That will help.

Translating spanned Red and MXF files really seems to mess things up.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 4:36:53 pm

[Darren Roark] "Do you have the FCP 7 project and is the media Canon MXF? If so let FCP X rewrap them to QT's via the import window, relink those in FCP 7, 'un-nest' any nested items and try 7toX again. "

They seem to be C100 QT. There are other formats but honestly I am too overwhelmed to go over them again.

I sure miss working on the last feature where its one big ass timeline :)

Episodic projects that borrow from past/future episodes are a nightmare to deal with :P


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Darren Roark
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 11, 2016 at 9:34:07 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Episodic projects that borrow from past/future episodes are a nightmare to deal with :P"

Yeah, that is always a pain!

It might be worth giving it a shot translating without the nesting. Is it only on the compound clips? Does breaking them apart fix it?

The main thing to do before exporting the FCP 7 XML is to make sure the audio is linked in the timeline. This does two things, it makes it so the audio comes in as a sync'd clip, much neater. The other thing is it helps to prevent sync slippage. (Just not with all formats, Canon/Sony footage being a big offender.)

If you send both XMLs to Greg and Philip at Intelligent Assistance I know they will get back to you and at least let you know what's going on.

info@AssistedEditing.com

Good luck! I hope the workload becomes more manageable.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 12:53:06 am

[Darren Roark] "It might be worth giving it a shot translating without the nesting. Is it only on the compound clips? Does breaking them apart fix it? "

Im gonna be honest, the legacy files are fubar even at FCP7.
Here is what Ive found to date.
All the Zoom files are 44KHz but the sequences 48KHz.
Honestly dont know if that would be the culprit but I figured Id report it anyways.
Then during file opening in FCP7 I ge this error:
The file does not have enought audio tracks to reconnect "zoom..." at time ## in sequence "Synced Sequence".
Click "OK" to make this item independent and go to the next clip or "Cancel" to skip all clips from this file.

I think these audio files have been through PluralEyes.
And the offending files have a "Tr3" tag in the names.

Im not sure if any of the above is the cause of this mess since Im only seeing it affecting three clips (in this particular episode)

I will battle on and if I lose anymore sleep I think I will have to say "no mas" :(


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Oliver Peters
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 12:55:49 am

[Eric Santiago] "the legacy files are fubar even at FCP7.... All the Zoom files are 44KHz but the sequences 48KHz."

That's a definite no-no in FCP7.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:12:56 am

[Oliver Peters] "That's a definite no-no in FCP7."

Oh good god the whole project is done like this.

Seriously this is a nightmare.

What baffles me is how did the original editor get all the way to the 13th episode?

I feel Im being punked with this project :P


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:09:27 am

[Eric Santiago] "All the Zoom files are 44KHz but the sequences 48KHz"

Right click on the files and choose Open With > Soundtrack Pro (must have Soundtrack Pro installed).

I can't remember the exact menu, but it's something like Process > Resample. Change to 48k and save.

The files are resampled to 48k in fcp7.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:11:39 am

Sorry should have been more clear, you Resample and save each file, not in a batch.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:50:16 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Sorry should have been more clear, you Resample and save each file, not in a batch."

Thanks Jeremy.

But honestly is this why the audio in many instances is way off by seconds and not frames. I can hear the slate at most of the beginning of each time a ZOOM file was used.
Now what bugs me is that its sporadic.
Heck if it was across the board I would given up a the first episode and walked away.
I am not getting any errors on missing files so I am certain its all there.
So again, is this caused by the 44KHz audio?


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:53:40 am

Here is another error pop-up:

File Attribute Mismatch

Some attributes of one or more of the files you have chosen...
The attributes that differed are as follows:
- media start and end
- reel
- rate

When I choose continue I feel its not going anywhere.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 2:01:16 am

Check the reel names of the audio files. That might allow you to reconnect to the proper files.

I'd hit cancel and keep reconnecting to different files with the same name until you find the right one.

Reel name could very well be just the folder name, and perhaps you can at least be pointed in the right direction.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 1:58:41 am

Fcp7 certainly did weird things with audio that wasn't 48k PCM.

Also, have you rendered the timeline, specifically the audio? FCP7 would constantly confuse render files (and 44.1 audio needed to be rendered). It might be worth trashing the audio render files and trying again.

I thought you mentioned that the clips weren't connected to the right clips either? (Multiple clips with same name?)


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 2:29:49 am

Thanks again Jeremy.

Here are some oddities Ive found.

Suspect files are two to three frames shorter than the ones I find on the drive.
Ive trashed the renders numerous times.
I also noticed that rendering the master sequence does not render the sub sequences :P
Wow that blows my mind!
Yes the multiple clips are a pain and Ive been listening to make sure its the right take.
But I am not going to do that with every issue.
I think the project is done on my end and will be returning it to the client.
They will take it back to the original editor (another country) and deal with it there.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 2:27:46 pm

Question on the File Attribute Mismatch error.
I noticed it on a PSD file?
How does this affect an static image?
I find this to be an odd error.
I can understand anything with a time length but a static image?


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Darren Roark
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 5:39:23 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Question on the File Attribute Mismatch error.
I noticed it on a PSD file?"


Layered photoshop files are tricky.

When the XML is converted from FCP 7 are all the clips online in the project?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 3:41:51 pm

[Eric Santiago] "They will take it back to the original editor (another country) and deal with it there."

Ouch. It's no fun to inherit a big mess. It sounds like it would take too much time to get it sorted out.

[Eric Santiago] "How does this affect an static image?
I find this to be an odd error.
I can understand anything with a time length but a static image?"


I think FCP throws a flag once it seems a disconnect between the file and the metadata. Who knows where or when this disconnected data was added. Perhaps someone modified the file in between when the project was last saved, and when you received it, or the metadata was only added to the project and not the original file. Sometimes, just hitting 'ok' you will be fine, but in the case of files that are named the same, you can get in a bit of trouble.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 6:16:38 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " think FCP throws a flag once it seems a disconnect between the file and the metadata. Who knows where or when this disconnected data was added. Perhaps someone modified the file in between when the project was last saved, and when you received it, or the metadata was only added to the project and not the original file. "

Thats the thing. When I first started with this project I was told to open specific files dated Dec 2015.
I then got it all connected in FCP7 before exporting XML to FCPX.
I thought it was all good from that point until I sat down with the new editor (he quit on the project thus why I was on it). There was too many errors from FCP to FCPX so I went and tried to dig deeper.
As it turns out I was using the wrong files.
There were newer ones dated in April 2016 with the tag ONLINE on it.
So I thought ooops there it is!!
I was wrong.
Those are the right files but thats when the nightmare started.
Nothing connects properly with most of the audio.
Sure a good average of 70% was working but the 30% is critically fubar.
Not a time slip issue but basically 30sec to 1min off sync.
So where did this all go wrong?
The older files are a lot different than the ONLINE ones.
I know that if I had the patience I can copy paste the bad sections into a new sequence and work this out but honestly whos in for that kind of fun :P


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 8:32:31 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Those are the right files but thats when the nightmare started.
Nothing connects properly with most of the audio."


Yeah. That is a mess right there, but:







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Eric Santiago
Re: 7toX workflow issues
on May 12, 2016 at 10:22:20 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Yeah. That is a mess right there, but"

LOL!

Thanks I needed that.

I am going through the whole thing again and documenting the errors.
This way the original editor doesnt think I screwed this up on purpose.


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