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Craig Alan
1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 4:15:43 am

Just picked up one of these CyperPower battery backup with surge protector. Putting together new system with an iMac and as many as four thunderbolt raids attached. It has 5 outlets that are battery backup covered. But are the stats listed in the subject adequate?
1350va 810 watts

This is what I have been able to find in terms of specs:





The one I ordered will have a 500 Gig SSD not the 3TB Fusion Drive. But it will have the M390X w 4GIG



I am buying a thunderbay and populating it with 4 6TB drives but will be daisy chaining as many raids at times that I can safely manage. We have pegasus raids now which are gen 1 and drives needed to be updated for them. But still in use.

Can't find power specs on thunderbay but I figure the pegasus will do having as many drives and fans.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Noah Kadner
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 4:20:47 am

What's the question? I assume you are asking how long the battery backup will last? Hard to say without knowing the model # and manufacturer's claim.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 6:20:03 am

Can I just add up the listed "power consumption" in watts and compare that to the 810 watts of output the battery back up claims it provides or is there more to it than that?

My guess is that if you have a long power outage the battery will run out. But it should be able to handle brown outs and short outages.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Noah Kadner
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 7:06:35 am
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Jan 6, 2016 at 7:08:48 am

Those are meant to give you time to shut down safely in a power outage, not be a backup generator. I'd be surprised if you got more than an hour. Most of those units come with software to automatically shut the computer down in case you're away when the power goes out.

More answers are here: http://www.howtogeek.com/161479/how-to-select-a-battery-backup-for-your-com...

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 7:23:29 am

That would be a nice option and I know they should offer this but whether a given model works with the latest Mac OS, I'll need to find out. But there are times power is lost for a second. Is there any harm in continuing? Or should you always reboot after a black or brown out?

And regardless of how long it will continue to power the Mac and raids, it needs to be able to supply power to all of them when power is lost ... so my original question remains. If I added up the listed power consumption of each device, am I ok if they do not exceed the 810 watts?

If FC is open and doing a long render or ingesting a 64 gig media card, what will happen if power is lost and the UPS software is programmed to turn off the Mac - is that safe? Raids like to be ejected properly not be shut down in the middle of an operation.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 6:33:20 pm

If a system is consuming anywhere near that massive power, then a room is hot; heated by something equivalent to a four slice toaster. Is you system really that hot? Hardly. If consuming as much as 300 watts, then it is a high power system.

Your UPS has more than enough power to perform its function: temporary and dirty power so that unsaved data can be saved. So that a short blackout does not cause unexpected reboots.

View spec numbers for its surge protection. It claims surge protection - subjectively. No numbers is why scams are so successful. How many joules does it claim to absorb? 600? So it absorbs 200 joules and never more than 400. Surges that tiny are converted by a MAC into rock stable, low voltage DC to safety power its semiconductors. It claims near zero protection. Just enough so that you will believe it does 100% protection.

Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. Protection from surges is done by something completely different and that costs tens or 100 times less money. UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data is not lost; once we include perspective - the numbers.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 6, 2016 at 8:14:19 pm

I always find trying to figure out UPS loads fairly mind-boggling - and it's really all about current draw but yes, you could add up the wattage of the equipment you're going to connect. The higher the load, the faster the battery will run down.

A quick Google search suggests the manufacturer expects the battery to last about nine minutes at half load (400 watts). The Mac on its own is about 1/4 load so, pushed to the max while rendering, should run on the battery for about 18 minutes-ish. Reduce that as you add peripherals.

The seems s a little short for the size of the battery so you might want to double check that run -time figure.

In actual use, the UPS is going to smooth out your power issues, and keep things running through brown-outs and short outages. For a longer-term outage, the battery is intended to buy you the time to shut the system down gracefully.

Power where I am is rock solid, so I haven't bothered with a UPS in a long time but when I did, I had one for my Mac and a second one with the RAID and monitor plugged in.

Even if the UPS has software to automatically shut the Mac down, there's still a good chance that it won't happen if there's an app that cancels the shutdown, or pauses it, waiting for confirmation from you that it's ok to continue.

Ultimately though, you should just plug everything in, making sure you don't exceed 800watts, start a render and cut the power to see how long you get. It's the only way to really know how long you're going to run during an outage.

Hope that helps a little...

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 7, 2016 at 1:59:26 am

Hi thanks. I contacted Cyberpower and the guy was very helpful. We reviewed the power requirements and he felt this would cover my needs with room to spare. They have downloadable software that will shut down the Mac if needed and cover power during brown outs. The only thing he raised was whether Macs need Pure Sine Wave UPS.

I ordered one with this feature from BH but it's backordered so I should have time to test this one and cancel if this one works. I read on some forum that a Mac would only need that if running on battery for a period of time and that it is not needed for a brown out or for shut down. Pegasus rep feels that their updated firmware covers the ability to not get corrupted under these circumstances.

What I plan to do is plug in just the mac with a small project playing an endless loop in FC. I'll unplug the battery back up so it needs to have the battery kick in and see what gives. If that works I'll try it with a raid running a test project.

You are right other than maybe audio components this sure is hard to figure. Every device seems vague in terms of power requirement specs.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Patrick Donegan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 8, 2016 at 12:23:03 am

" this would cover my needs with room to spare"

That is so very subjective.

If you really want to be able to be able to make sure you can keep the computer and
hard drives running for an hour or so during the rendering, there are commercial
UPS's that allow you to add one, 2 or more external batteries to the unit,
to make sure there is enuf time for your needs.

It all really depends on how much money you want to spend to make sure the power stays on.

This one, like all the others are telling you, is to make sure you can shut down,
and have no clue about processes that take more than 10 minutes.

FCP X 10.2.2 - user since FCP 1.25
iMac mid 2011, MBA mid 2012
HVX-200, Shure wireless mic


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 8, 2016 at 5:51:16 am

[Patrick Donegan] "" this would cover my needs with room to spare""

[Patrick Donegan] "That is so very subjective. "

Meaning that it's watts rating will cover the devices I told him would be plugged into it.

It's not a generator and it cost $100 (costco) or $140 (bh on sale) if i go for the one that provides Pure Sine Wave UPS. ? if that is needed?

What I need is: cover brown outs and provide power when needed with the feature to power down the computer.

My concern is not running on battery power for long renders or exports (though if money were no object that would be nice) but rather what happens if an app like FC is in the middle of an operation or some unfinished process. Will the Mac still power down if battery power has kicked in and the energy saver system preference is set to power down after x minutes?

Hopefully that system preference is smart enough to handle the shut down regardless of what any given app is doing.

I have been surprised how hard it has been to get clear advice on what to buy and how it works when it comes to UPS.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Joe Marler
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 8, 2016 at 1:00:32 pm

[Craig Alan] "What I need is: cover brown outs and provide power when needed with the feature to power down the computer."

I use an APC XS 1500 for my 2015 iMac 27 and two drive arrays. It is not a pure sine wave UPS but my iMac has no problems running on it: http://amzn.com/B002UUTCNE

Powered on and sitting there, the total power draw for the iMac, 8TB Pegasus R4 and 8TB G-Tech G-RAID is about 95 watts. This theoretically produces a run time of about 74 minutes on the UPS. If the iMac is doing heavy work, power consumption (as measured on the UPS display) increases to about 150-170 watts, with proportionally shorter run time.

I don't even have the auto-shutdown feature installed, as outages are rare in my area and 98% of those which occur are brief.


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 8, 2016 at 2:59:15 pm

> I have been surprised how hard it has been to get clear advice on what to buy and how it works when it comes to UPS.

Most who recommend a UPS have no idea what it really does. These are identified by subjective statements. For example, many 'know' a pure sine wave is needed. Total bull. Due to robust protection inside a PSU, even 'dirtier' power is ideal. In fact, a square or stepped wave output (rather than a sine wave) means more battery power ends up in the computer. That same square or stepped wave can be harmful to small motors. And perfectly good for electronics.

And still so many want a pure sine wave only because emotion says it is necessary. Meanwhile, where is the number that defines a pure sine wave (ie %THD)? Not provided by the many who need pure sine waves and do not even hava a number for it.

Same with brownouts. Let's put some numbers to it. Incandescent bulbs can dim to 40% intensity. Even voltage that low is perfectly good for a computer. How often do you have brownouts? Something like never? UPS is really only for blackouts.

Since specific numbers have not been provided for every appliance, then nobody can really say how long that X number of minutes is. However, expect at least 10 minutes with a UPS that large. How do you get power requirements for each appliance? Get a Kill-A-Watt or something equivalent to actually measure those numbers. Since only subjective answers are possible if hard numbers are not first provided.

A UPS it typically made as cheap as possible. A life expectancy of maybe three years from its batteries is reasonable. That above 10 minute number will decrease significantly each year.


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 2:25:20 am

[wes thom] "For example, many 'know' a pure sine wave is needed. Total bull. "

[wes thom] "And still so many want a pure sine wave only because emotion says it is necessary. "

What I have read, and I have no emotional need to buy one type or another, just want to get something that will help and be done with it, is that Active PFC power supplies play better with a pure sine wave power supply and iMacs use Active PFC power supplies.

Now you seem very knowledgable on the subject but so do the other dozen articles and opinions I've read on the subject. You'd think in the info age that there would be some objective and clear and consistent advice on a UPS that will work with a IMac and raid set up and what you get at a certain price point.

But I guess I'll test the one I have from costco and see what happens when I pull the plug.

This would be easy to do if I plugged the UPS into a surge protector with an on off switch.

Which is another subject where opinion seems to differ. Some suggested that the surge protector would protect the UPS from going down from a surge and some manuals for the UPS say not to do it for what ever technical reason.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 4:13:42 pm

> What I have read, and I have no emotional need to buy one type or another, just want to get something that will help and be done with it, is that Active PFC power supplies play better with a pure sine wave power supply and iMacs use Active PFC power supplies.

Only active Power Factor Correction (PFC) that is problematic well exceeds 99% PFC. Some early PFC circuits were that 'active', not required by code, and do not exist in most venues. Active PFC is not even required in North America. Most computers use passive PFC. In short, 'active PFC' fear is mostly just that - emotion created by people who only know what was heard. Also called speculation.

How active is PFC in your computer? What do specs say?

Surge protection is another example of emotion. Why are surge protect[b]or[/b] and surge protect[b]ion[/b] same? Words sound alike. So emotion says it must be same.

Protect[b]ion[/b] is where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Numbers separate speculation from reality. What does that UPS or adjacent protector do? UPS is emotionally declared as 100% protection. It says a protector circuit exists. Read its numbers. Hundreds of joules. Near zero protection is hyped as 100% protection (subjectively). The emotional only hear subjectively.

Protect[b]or[/b] is only a connecting device doing what a hardwire would do better.

What does a protector's power switch do? Does a millimeters gap in an open switch stop what three miles of sky could not? Of course not. Does its hundreds or thousand joules protector circuit absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Of course not. Most advise has no numbers. Because most only believe a first thing they are told - subjectively. And then get angry or defensive when reality exposes that myth.

A surge so tiny as to not harm electronics may also catastrophically damage a near zero joules protector. Undersizing increases sales. The emotion speculate, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Total bull. A surge too tiny to damage anything else also destroys a near zero power strip protector. Reality is completely different once numbers are learned.

Your concern is a transient that can overwhelm protection in that computer ... and all other household appliances. Again, that means hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed elsewhere. THE most important protection component is single point earth ground. Protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection. We have not yet discussed the 'art' of protection. But a power strip protector has no earth ground.

Many must see a magic box. Many assume a box does protection. Many ignore what they do not see - buried ground rods. But those rods (not a magic box) are critical. More numbers apply.

Surge protection is about a current not entering a house. Then all appliances are protected from direct lightning strikes. This solution (dissipating a surge outside via buried rods) is a well proven solution. Once inside, a surge goes hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Nothing inside (ie near zero power strip protector or UPS) can avert that hunt.

But it is called a surge protect[b]or[/b]. That proves it does surge protect[b]ion[/b]? Subjective reasoning is why emotions (not facts) are widely believed hearsay and speculation. No numbers is a first indication of junk science recommendations.

If active PFC is problematic, then one defines that problem with numbers. How active is the PFC? Fear is traceable to subjective recommendations - no numbers. Overwhelmingly, most PFC circuits are only 'passive' - not 'active'. Only rare PFC circuits (often in Europe) have this problem.

Why would anyone spend so much for more expensive PFC. Then a UPS power supply with bad power factor subverts that correction. More numbers that question the need and resulting fears.

Your 'unplug the UPS' test is quite useful and recommended.


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 7:55:35 pm

I have an isobar 6 outlet surge protector. Rated at 2350 Joules.
Life time insurance against surge damage including lightning.
Of course there is a lot of fine print connected to this insurance.

What you are saying is that it offers no protection against surges.

Is that correct?

So basically it just serves as a multi-outlet electrical strip.

Is there any harm in using it in order to easily unplug all connected devices so that I can easily shut down all if I'm leaving for any length of time and to run my test of the UPS? In other words using it as a multi-outlet.

So the actually best way to protect gear from a real surge is to have the electrical panel of the house or office properly grounded. Best done by a trustworthy electrician? I assume this has been done but could have it checked.

[wes thom] "Your 'unplug the UPS' test is quite useful and recommended."

And what UPS would you recommend if any? Specifically for an iMac and several raids.

Other than testing it do you see any problems with the Cyberpower unit as shown above.

I do not buy things out of fear or emotion. Nor am I fully knowledgeable about the science behind most of the products that I use or buy. I chose the option on my new iMac for a AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB video memory.
Do I know the science behind that graphic card giving better performance when using FCP X and other editing software? No. Do I trust that it will, given the recommendation from several professional editing sources including editors on this site? Yes.

It was pretty easy to find well informed recommendations about this graphic card option. UPS units? No. And again you seem, knowledgable, but it's not like I read your post and understand it now. And it's filled with emotional rhetoric along with some useful information. I wouldn't be asking if I bought the sales pitch.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 10, 2016 at 10:16:50 am

[Craig Alan] "What you are saying is that it offers no protection against surges."

First, Isobar does claim to protect from a type of surge that is typically made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. Isobar (and equivalents) do something useful (supplementary) if a 'whole house' solution is also implemented. It does what it says it will do.

For example, spec number defines 2350 joules. That means it may absorb 780 joules and never more than 1580 joules. Protection is what specs define.

Phrase 'no protection' is subjective. A subjective conclusion (without facts and spec numbers) is illogical; is emotional. Either a conclusion is based in facts and perspective (ie numbers). Or that conclusion is based in emotion (ie speculation or absolutes). Isobar only does protection it says it does.

To be useful, a properly earthed 'whole house' solution also must exist.


Second, electrical panel must already be grounded - as required by codes for human protection. Panel can be grounded and still transistor protection may not exist. Since some wires obviously pass through without a low impedance connection to earth.

AC electric is three incoming wires - two hots and a neutral. Only neutral is hardwired to earth ground - for human protection. Transistor protection is compromised if any one wire does not connect low impedance to earth. Some wires that must connect to earth ground can only connect via a protector.

Effective protection is about how every incoming wire connects low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth.


Third, peripheral features such as total output power, alarms, and remote shutdown make a UPS unique. For example, a period of no output power exists when a UPS switches between AC electric and battery. This switchover time must be short enough so that a computer's power supply can provide uninterrupted DC voltages when no AC incoming UPS power exists. This necessary functions (like so many others) is a UPS standard. IOW a UPS sells like a commodity. Standard functions (ie switchover time) exist in all.

Peripheral features (ie if it can shutdown a Mac, how many AC receptacles are provided, etc) makes that commodity unique (just like some apples are red and others are green).

Any UPS (a commodity) will do as long as its peripheral functions provide your unique requirements.


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 10, 2016 at 7:11:31 pm

[wes thom] "First, Isobar does claim to protect from a type of surge that is typically made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances."

1) And what type of surge is that?

2) Does it provide any surge protection that is relevant?

[wes thom] "spec number defines 2350 joules. That means it may absorb 780 joules and never more than 1580 joules. Protection is what specs define."

The specs read: surge energy absorption : 2350.
1) Why then is it never more than 1580 joules?
2) And in what way, if any, are any of these amounts relevant to protecting an IMac or a Pegasus raid?

Is there any disadvantage to plugging the UPS into a surge protector multi-outlet?

[wes thom] "Isobar only does protection it says it does.
"


Tripp Lite says the Isobar "contains the strongest surges, including direct lightning strikes." They also say it "protects equipment from damaging surges and eliminates interference between connected equipment."

“Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. …
Protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection. … Many ignore what they do not see - buried ground rods. But those rods (not a magic box) are critical. … Surge protection is about a current not entering a house. … This solution (dissipating a surge outside via buried rods) is a well proven solution. … Nothing inside (ie near zero power strip protector or UPS) can avert that hunt. … But it is called a surge protect[b]or[/b]. That proves it does surge protect[b]ion[/b]?”

You didn’t actually use any numbers in this explanation nor was there any need to. You were being really clear. Ground rods protect the inside of the house from destructive surges. A power strip protector does not since it has no connection to ground rods.

Then in the last post your said:
“Panel can be grounded and still transistor protection may not exist. Since some wires obviously pass through without a low impedance connection to earth.
… Transistor protection is compromised if any one wire does not connect low impedance to earth. Some wires that must connect to earth ground can only connect via a protector.”

What type of protector would that be?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 11, 2016 at 1:03:57 am

[Craig Alan] "What type of protector would that be?"

Established was what a UPS does. Adjacent protectors (power strip or UPS) do not provide effective protection from typically destructive surges. Effective protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Each protection layer is defined by 'protection' - earth ground.

Incoming TV cable needs no protector. A hardwire connects a cable direct to earthing electrodes. Hardwire connects via this ground block.
http://files.cablewholesale.com/hires/200-278.jpg
Protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth ground. Which means a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot, no sharp bends) connection to electrodes. No protector required.

A surge current connects low impedance to earth; need not enter a building; does not threaten household appliances.

Telephone cannot make a direct connection. So a telco installs (for free) a 'whole house' protector. Also only as effective as its earth ground. Protector in this NID ( http://www.citynet.net/page.cfm?mypage=HowtobackfeedtheDigitalPhoneService ) also must connect low impedance (ie no splices) to that same electrode. Telco protector is only doing what an above hardwire would do better. That is what an effective protector does. It is a connecting device - does not actually do protection.

Most common source of destructive surges is AC mains. These wires are not required to have protection. Only a homeowner decides to earth each incoming AC wire. Like telephone, the AC hot wires cannot connect directly to earth. So a 'whole house' protector (installed in a breaker box or behind an electric meter) makes that connection.

'Whole house' protectors are provided by companies known for integrity. These include Leviton, General Electric, Syscom, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Intermatic, Delta, Square D, ABB, Ditek, and Siemens. A Cutler-Hammer protector sells in both Lowes and Home Depot for about $50.

Connecting is what a protector must do during each surge. Numbers such as hundreds of thousands of joules and impedance apply. 'Art' of protection is single point earth ground. Every incoming wire must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground. Earthing - an 'art' - determines protection during each surge.

Further discussion may be needed. But in many cases, multiple 10 foot electrodes, found in most homes and selling in Lowes and Home Depot for $11, may be sufficient. Those electrodes do protection. This is about protection during each surge.

A typical lightning strike may be 20,000 amps. A protector must not fail after many lightning strikes. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. This number defines a protector's life expectancy over many surges.

A lightning rod means a direct lightning strike need not connect to earth destructively via a structure. A 'whole house' protection system means a direct lightning strike need not connect to earth destructively via any interior household appliances. Both solutions are only as effective as the key component - earth ground.

BTW, above is only your 'secondary' protection layer. Each layer of protection is only defined by what absorbs energy - earth ground. A picture demonstrates what to inspect in your 'primary' protection layer:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 11, 2016 at 1:15:26 am

[Craig Alan] "Is there any disadvantage to plugging the UPS into a surge protector multi-outlet?"

'Whole house' protector does 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection (per an IEEE Standard). That means maybe another 0.2% of protection by a multi-outlet protector. It supplements protection IF a 'whole house' solution is implemented. Details are too complex to discuss here.

Downside is using it without that 'whole house' solution. For example, that power strip can actually compromise protection inside attached appliances (computer or UPS). In rare cases, it can cause a fire.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 8, 2016 at 8:55:57 pm
Last Edited By Jeff Kirkland on Jan 8, 2016 at 8:57:23 pm

[Craig Alan] "What I need is: cover brown outs and provide power when needed with the feature to power down the computer.
"


You'll need to test the software but from the times I've had similar installed, it's worked about the same as holding down the 'alt' key while choosing shutdown from the Apple Menu. In theory it's sending OS X a "shut it all down right now" message but in reality, if an app like FCPX is rendering, it will pause the shutdown and wait for user to confirm it's ok to cancel the render.

In which case, the software will only be useful for an unattended shutdown if you're using FCPX but not actively rendering. Otherwise, it's just going to sit there with the dialog open until the power runs out and it crashes anyway.

And of course, FCPX is only one of along list of apps that will pause/cancel a shutdown if they think it will cause you to lose data.

I'll be interested to hear what happens when you test it.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 2:04:24 am

Yes that is my concern. You would think that if you used Apple's shut down command in system preferences that it would be designed to proceed with the shut down.

I think the least risky way to test this is having word open with an unsaved document. See how it handles that.

I don't usually loose any thing when the computer/system drive looses power or reboots from a crash. But connected raids is another matter.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Noah Kadner
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 9:51:41 pm
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Jan 9, 2016 at 9:52:41 pm

This seems like a lot of worrying about a very rare issue. If the power where you are is seriously unreliable and you often leave FCPX rendering you could take things a step further.

For example- kick off an IFTTT notification to your mobile device whenever the UPS tries to shutdown due to power loss. Then you run Team Viewer or similar VNC alowing you to remotely screen share and confirm the system is actually shutting down before the battery is exhausted.

That or never leave the system unattended when a render is going.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Craig Alan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 9, 2016 at 11:50:22 pm

Interesting. Thanks.

I usually wait for renders to finish. And can easily wait till I'm ready to work again.

the long period of unattended use is usually backups and copying media cards. The imports once copied are fairly fast. They now sell thunderbolt and USB 3 card readers for p2 so that should speed that up. Cloning my raids however is my biggest concern. There you are using both copies of my media and would hate both copies to go down. Again, the ups should handle brief interruptions and according to Pegasus the newest firmware prevents corruptions due to a power failure. I also have been running on a now aging 2011 iMac. This was first gen thunderbolt and although undocumented I really think it had problems with some external drives forcing a reboot.

At home I just got a brand new iMac, interested to see if this solves anything though I tested the most problematic drives, mercury dual pros, on another resent iMac and it was still forcing a reboot. Will be sending these raids back to owc under warranty once I get the media off them.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Patrick Donegan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 13, 2016 at 3:51:29 am

I mostly always use a UPS on any computer that is not a laptop.

Right now I am off grid on a PV system that has probe with the main batteries,
so when I here the refrigerator kick on, I also here the UPS kick on - doing something.
Maybe just activating for a blackout, but mostly likely a temp surge for a brown out.

This is a little 500va with a 12volt 7 AH battery
that barely lasts 6 minutes on my mid 2011 iMac 21 inch.

Every time I hear that glitch - which is everyday and often,., I am glad I got a replacement battery
at home depot from the automatic gate closer section.

FCP X 10.2.2 - user since FCP 1.25
iMac mid 2011, MBA mid 2012
HVX-200, Shure wireless mic


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wes thom
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 13, 2016 at 2:39:59 pm

[Patrick Donegan] "... so when I here the refrigerator kick on, I also here the UPS kick on - doing something.
Maybe just activating for a blackout, but mostly likely a temp surge for a brown out."


First, if that refrigerator creates a brownout, then a home has wiring problems. In most cases, that defect is trivial. In rare cases, it indicates a serious human safety issue.

Second, if a refrigerator creates a brownout, then incandescent bulbs are dimming significantly.

Third, bulbs must dim to less than 40% intensity before causing any problem for any properly designed computer.

Fourth, a UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. Therefore noise (ie a single digit voltage spike) can cause a UPS to switch-over to batteries. That switch-over (and resulting noise) need not only happen during a brownout or blackout. But again, if it was from a brownout, then lights are also dimming significantly. An unacceptable condition often traceable to household wiring problems.


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Patrick Donegan
Re: 1350va 810 watts
on Jan 14, 2016 at 5:11:31 am

Like I typed, it is due to a worn out battery bank in an off grid system,
with the major load being a large refrigerator.

You are describing a well-working on-grid system, which I am sure most everyone else
here is using besides me.

And yes, it might just be a few volts of fluctuation, I will put my KillaWatt meter in front
of the UPS and watch those numbers.

FCP X 10.2.2 - user since FCP 1.25
iMac mid 2011, MBA mid 2012
HVX-200, Shure wireless mic


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