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Mark Corrigan
Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 2:53:34 pm

Hi-

I ripped a dvd of home movies (all out of chronological sequence) and entered it into FCPX event. I have then gone through and created about 20 projects from the event that I could date and place in the correct order. I am now trying to recreate the entire home movie by piecing together the projects, but cannot figure out how to create new project from which I can add the other projects in the correct order (and with title slides, etc.).

Any help greatly appreciated.

Mark


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Noah Kadner
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 7:16:46 pm

Unfortunately that's more of an FCP7/Premiere Pro workflow. You cannot place projects into other projects.

Instead create one new Project timeline, then step into each Project and copy/paste contents into the master project. In the future, you want to use either Favoriting to trim to original media down to the sections you want. Or do all the trimming in a single master Project timeline.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Craig Seeman
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 8:26:35 pm

Just thinking out loud but might one make empty compound clips one could edit into and then you could combine them in a Project.

Given that he's already created project would going into each and Select All and making Compound Clips result in having each project as a Compound Clip which can then be dropped into a new Project.

It would be neat feature if you could just select the Project in the event and make it a Compound Clip.



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Mark Corrigan
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 8:44:11 pm

Hi Noah

Thanks! Solved the problem. It seems a bit clunky, though. I will be ripping home video dvds in the future and trying to improve upon them and possibly spice sections. Should i be following a different work flow and brining them into FCPX differently? Thanks Mark


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Noah Kadner
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 8:57:52 pm

Yes- as I suggested favoriting and keywording are the equivalent in FCPX to the workflow style you're after.

Or Compound Clips, though to my eyes this is clunky because you lose direct visibility to the original media with a Compound Clip on a Project Timeline.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Craig Seeman
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 9:05:33 pm

[Noah Kadner] "Or Compound Clips, though to my eyes this is clunky because you lose direct visibility to the original media with a Compound Clip on a Project Timeline."

You can break them apart once in the new project.
I find having the Compound Clips gives me something to go back to, to edit individually.

It's kind of like how I edited "segments" to a show in legacy. I'd edit the separate segments if I needed to make changes within the segment and use the master project to edit whatever was needed between the segments.



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Mark Corrigan
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 20, 2015 at 9:55:52 pm

Hi Noah,

I see you already mentioned, "favoriting" and "keyboarding" in response to my question. I am not sure about what those are (so I am doing some homework on MacProVideo to see if I can figure it out). Under these circumstances do i import the movies (apps 20 mins) as separate events and then go through and edit into a project?

Thanks

Mark


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Noah Kadner
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 2:23:38 am

Many different ways to organize in FCPX. I would suggest continuing studies first. The power of this app lies in its organization and tagging capabilities but they are best learned through training.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 8:48:30 am

So let me offer a different scenario...

Let's say I have 200 clips and I want to place them all on a single timeline, in order, to be able to "speed review" them by simply skimming the entire timeline.

Now let's say I want to bring that timeline into the viewer, set an in & out to cut into a different timeline that I'm working on. Can FCPX cut from one timeline into another? The reason I ask is because this is a fairly typical news editor's workflow, and the station for which I'm working just "upgraded" to FCPX. And if it can't, what's the workaround for achieving the same thing?


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 8:59:46 am

I think that would be a good case for using a compound clip to hold your original clips.

Of course, you could always just skim through all the clips in the browser without doing anything more than importing them, and give you more options for sorting on the fly - but dumping them into a compound clip would also do what you want.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Noah Kadner
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 4:36:01 pm

The key to unlocking FCPX's power is these early organizational operations happen in the browser not on the timeline as they did in 7. Learn about keywords, favoriting and rejecting and you'll be leveraging its strengths.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 6:07:32 pm

Doesn't sound like a very "news friendly" solution to me. Who has time to keyword when you're cutting under heavy deadline pressure?

SMH.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 8:16:36 pm

The great thing about FCPX is its flexibility. You can import clips to the browser, quickly skim through them and cut them straight to a timeline, You could string all the clips into an empty ccmpound clip and do what you've always done. Or you could add keywords to make stuff easier to find later. Whatever works for you and makes the shot you're looking for easier to find.

The one thing pretty much everyone finds, once they embrace the FCPX way of doing things, is that you can edit much faster in FCPX than you can on a traditional NLE.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 21, 2015 at 10:36:52 pm

Thanks, Jeff. It sounds like throwing all the clips into a compound clip with the ability to log timecode and edit from that is the solution I'll want for editing news. Whether I'll ever come around to an FCPX way of thinking is highly doubtful. Too many years invested in Avid Newscutter and Media Composer, the latter of which I still use for paid and unpaid freelance work. Much faster for me. ;)


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Joe Marler
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 4:09:06 pm

[Phil Lowe] ""200 clips...speed review" them by simply skimming...bring that timeline into the viewer, set an in & out to cut into a different timeline that I'm working on....Who has time to keyword when you're cutting under heavy deadline pressure"

In FCP X the skimmer and event browser are designed for this (hence the names). It is extremely fast. One way or another you have to examine the material. Why import it to an initial timeline for this? Within the event browser you can skim, set I/O points, mark favorites and rejects.

You don't have to keyword anything. For your case maybe simply using favorites and rejects is enough. Just make sure you have Skimming and Audio Skimming enabled.

Note: this process is marking *ranges* not clips, and they remain marked in the browser and can be selectively shown by clicking on "Favorites" in the filter drop-down at top left of the browser. In the browser they can be viewed as a list, sorted by various criteria, bulk added to the timeline, etc. Other editing software without this capability may have to edit ranges into an intermediary timeline but that is not needed with FCP X.

While FCP X is designed to work that way, there are two methods of editing into an intermediate timeline then putting that in a final timeline. (1) Make intermediate timeline into a compound clip (which places it into the browser) create final project timeline and add compound clip from browser. (2) As of 10.2 you can edit a timeline and essentially re-inject that into the browser via a Library Smart Collection. Use: File>New Library Smart Collection, then double-click on it and give the filter criteria Used Media. The search scope will be restricted to the current project but span all events in the library. Any edits to that project timeline will be reflected back to that Library Smart Collection and visible in the browser. When finished editing that intermediate timeline, you could then tag those clips in the Library Smart Collection, switch to a final project, query those tags and put them in the final timeline. I'm not recommending that workflow, but you could do it.

You can keep track of what clips you've used or not used in the timeline with Used Media Ranges:







If you wanted to use keywords this can be done very quickly:

MacBreak Studio "Warp Speed Keywording":





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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 6:32:40 pm

In FCP X the skimmer and event browser are designed for this (hence the names). It is extremely fast.


The idea behind placing every clip on an intermediate timeline is to be able to scrub/"skim" them all without having to go back to the bin to pull up another clip. It's especially useful for B-Rolling a sequence quickly. Every time you have to pull an individual clip into the browser - I don't care how fast you can "skim" it once there - it's wasting time. People who have never edited for news don't understand how critical every second can be. A few seconds can mean the difference between making or missing deadline.

Personally, I don't care at all for Apple's new editing paradigm but since I have to use it for editing news soon, I need it to work for what I do.


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Joe Marler
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 7:26:10 pm

[Phil Lowe] "Every time you have to pull an individual clip into the browser - I don't care how fast you can "skim" it once there - it's wasting time."

Can you explain what you mean here? In FCP X you don't generally "pull individual clips" into the browser -- you import everything -- it's *all* visible in the browser. Then you rapidly skim through it and make range selections.

Do you mean initially examining material external to FCP X, importing individual clips as you find them? That can be done and it formerly was the common practice. However it's usually not the optimal workflow with FCP X.

That became the common practice when import was expensive due to transcoding and when editing software was slow and had limited ability to scan through material. With FCP X that's no longer the case.

The best procedure is often to just import *everything* and use "leave files in place" and turn off all the import analysis options. It won't transcode anything or take up extra space. It is very fast.

I have used all kinds of external tools to scan through video material but IMO the best approach (with FCP X) is just import everything. It avoids redundant evaluation passes, and the skimming ability is faster than any other tool I've seen. It doesn't take up space because it's not transcoding anything. Once your selects are done you can easily copy only the used material to another library to archive that (if required).


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 8:09:00 pm
Last Edited By Phil Lowe on Nov 28, 2015 at 8:26:21 pm

In FCP X you don't generally "pull individual clips" into the browser -- you import everything -- it's *all* visible in the browser.


Yes, and whether you have a couple dozen or a couple hundred clips, you have to go through each one individually and "skim" to find the shot you want. If they are all in the same (compound) clip, you have only a single clip you have to scrub through. Making a compound clip is the closest thing I've found to creating an intermediate sequence and cutting from that. I'm trying to eliminate the time it takes to view individual clips by placing them all on a single timeline. Compound clips seem to be the best answer for me in an otherwise (IMHO) ghastly interface.

By the way, Avid has had the ability to preview and scrub clips in the bin for years - much like the default FCP X browser view now - and I never liked that approach either, because you still have to view the clips one at a time instead of having them all viewable as a single clip, which is what putting them all on a sequence (or compound clip) gives you.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 8:24:03 pm

Maybe I'm just missing something but the workflow that Phil is describing just sounds like an artificial way of doing what the FCPX browser is presenting you with by default.

The clips are in the Browser window, sorted and grouped whatever way you want, you can see a thumbnail at whatever interval you set so visually you can quickly jump to whatever you're looking for. In the default view, with grouping off, all the clips are essentially strung out one after the other in chronological order, so you just skim through the clips, set in and out points, hit the 'e' key to edit that selection to the timeline, and repeat.

I can't for the life of me think how the extra step of stringing the clips out into a timeline could possibly be any faster than that.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 28, 2015 at 8:31:52 pm
Last Edited By Phil Lowe on Nov 28, 2015 at 9:36:58 pm

you can see a thumbnail at whatever interval you set


I work in text (list) mode. Always have. Always will.

And Jeff, check out this link at the 3:08 mark and watch him scroll down and drag, scroll down and drag, and scroll down and drag. This is the workflow I'm trying to avoid by having all the clips on one sequence:







One more thing: the guy in the video I linked uses separate events like bins. I think I'm going to organize all my media - by type (bites, b-roll, etc) into compound clips to do the same thing, much as I do now with Avid, putting different types of media in different sequences.

P.S. Watching him drop voice tracks from the browser was just painful. That's how to do it in Windows Movie Maker! ;) Way faster to record all the tracks straight to the timeline and clean them up there.


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Joe Marler
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 12:08:15 am

[Phil Lowe] "I work in text (list) mode. Always have. Always will."

Ah, I begin to see the problem. If your goal is the fastest possible survey of the material and making selects, I suggest you use the browser's filmstrip view. It is optimal in that case.

As a test I just re-imported 200GB of a documentary I recently worked on, which was about 20 hr of 1080p material to produce a final 17 min product. With "leave files in place" it took FCP X about 5 min to import. Using filmstrip view I blitzed through the material making selection ranges and marking favorites and rejects. I cannot imagine a faster way to work. You can then append those to a timeline and start adjusting it.

For documentary work I would normally do more extensive keywording but I can understand in a time-critical news gathering situation that may not be possible. However you can accomplish your goal -- making a rapid 1st-pass selection to the timeline -- by working from the browser in filmstrip mode, marking favorites or just appending ranges straight to the timeline. Whether the material is selected from the browser or from an intermediate timeline, the issue is how do that the fastest possible way. Generally, that way is using the browser in filmstrip mode, not making selects from the browser to an intermediate timeline and then more selects from there to a final timeline.

List view is provided for cases where you need to access clip metadata -- say enter notes, rename favorite tags, access keywords, etc. I think you said you don't have time to keyword anything so you may not need list view.

[Phil Lowe] ...check out this link at the 3:08 mark and watch him scroll down and drag, scroll down and drag, and scroll down and drag. This is the workflow I'm trying to avoid by having all the clips on one sequence:"

The editor in that video said: "What I like about the browser in FCP X is you can just whiz through everything. I used to work with one big timeline with all my rushes on it....but with FCP X I don't have to do that because I can just see everything nicely (in the browser filmstrip mode), and just drag across it."

He said he's only been using FCP X for one month, but he has already grasped the right idea.


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 12:59:14 am

[Phil Lowe] "I work in text (list) mode. Always have. Always will."

Ah, I begin to see the problem. If your goal is the fastest possible survey of the material and making selects, I suggest you use the browser's filmstrip view. It is optimal in that case.


How much faster can it be than CMD-A>New Compound Clip at which point I don't have to scroll down through anything?

If browsing is all you need to do, yeah: that editor had the "right idea." But everything else he was doing was painfully slow. In the time it took him to lay a couple of shots and a single track, I could've had ALL his tracks cleaned up on an Avid timeline!

Another thing news editors have to deal with: we generally can't edit packages without a script, which means nothing gets "selected" (or edited) until a script is finally approved, at which point the reporter tracks the script and we cut all the sound together, so that the producer knows how long the finished package will be. B-Roll at that point MUST match the script, so it's almost useless - in many cases - to try to anticipate what will or won't be used before you get the script, at which point the focus turns immediately to editing, not "browsing", "making selects" or all of the other exercises people NOT under news deadlines get to do on their shiny new Apple NLE!

I routinely turned 1:30 news packages around - from script to delivery - in 20 minutes or less on an Avid Newscutter, using the workflow I've described above (sequencing everything using an intermediate sequence). Maybe that workflow isn't necessary for documentary filmmaking, but news isn't the same animal.

Apple never designed FCPX as a news editor. The fact that news stations are using it says more about its price than its features as a news NLE. That said, news editors are incredibly resourceful and can find workarounds as needed. Creating a compound clip from all my b-roll looks like it will be mine.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 1:31:47 am

The only thing I'd do differently from the video, is zoom into the clip a little more - maybe a thumbnail every five seconds or so, so that I could easily see where I was in a clip. As to the scrolling up and down... I can't see how moving vertically is any harder than moving horizontally. It's a flick of the finger whichever way you go.

One of the things that's often a stumbling block for new users is trying to hang on to the way they've always done things in other NLEs. It's an approach that almost never works, makes the whole FCPX experience awkward, and often leads to the verdict that "FCPX sucks".

Those that take the "never have, never will" approach are almost certainly going to find using FCPX to be a fairly miserable experience.

I guess the bottom line is that navigating and skimming the browser window is fundamental to how FCPX works. It may seem awkward at first but from my experience, and the experience of thousands of others, once you get used to it, it's just as fast as any other method.

Using FCPX doesn't come naturally to everyone, so hopefully your workplace will bring someone in to do some formal training about the optimal workflow when they make the switch.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 3:19:07 am
Last Edited By Phil Lowe on Nov 29, 2015 at 9:16:24 am

I can't see how moving vertically is any harder than moving horizontally. It's a flick of the finger whichever way you go.


It's not just a "flick of the finger." It's finding the right clip, which - in his case - may have been at the bottom of the browser, then scrubbing for the shot, then scrolling back up to the next shot, which may be at the top of the browser, and repeat ad nauseum. That process is to editing what hunt and peck typing would be to a secretary. Meanwhile, having all the clips in a compound clip means I only have to scrub for the shot I need: no scrolling up or down through the browser to find the clip and then find the shot. I can see why people here might think the first process is no big deal, but every second wasted trying to find a clip just to find a shot is a second closer to missing a deadline, and in news, every second often matters.

One of the things that's often a stumbling block for new users is trying to hang on to the way they've always done things in other NLEs. It's an approach that almost never works, makes the whole FCPX experience awkward, and often leads to the verdict that "FCPX sucks".


And, as I stated at the outset, while I have to learn FCPX for my job as a per diem news videographer, it will never replace Media Composer for my paid and pro bono freelance work, therefore I need FCPX to work - as closely as possible - to the way I use Media Composer. So I will find workarounds - including remapping the FCPX keyboard - to make that happen. Will I ever be as fast on it as I am on Avid? Probably not, but I'm being forced into this situation and I don't particularly like it. Yes, I think FCPX sucks comparatively speaking. I hate the magnetic, trackless timeline and "skimming" in the "bin" is annoying as hell. But, I will be able to make it work, though probably not as well as people who have "bought into it" will.


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Joe Marler
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 7:58:12 pm

[Phil Lowe] "...People who have never edited for news don't understand how critical every second can be. A few seconds can mean the difference between making or missing deadline... Apple never designed FCPX as a news editor...every second wasted trying to find a clip just to find a shot is a second closer to missing a deadline, and in news, every second often matters."

Here is the largest broadcaster in Detroit using FCP X in their news operations. When doing hands-on evaluation of other options, their editors preferred FCP X due to speed and ease of use. It has been so successful that E.W. Scripps Co. is now rolling out the same workflow to all their stations in the U.S.

One of their field reporters said his tight schedule means he must edit and complete every piece on his MacBook Pro in the truck before sending it back to the station. He said the speed and flexibility of FCP X makes it easier to meet his severe news deadlines. There's a photo in the below articles of him editing in the truck using FCP X.

I suggest you gives these guys a call; they might be happy to share ideas on using FCP X with another news professional.

http://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/in-action/scripps/
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/playout/2014/07/wxyz-chooses-apples-final-cut-pr...


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Phil Lowe
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 29, 2015 at 11:16:39 pm
Last Edited By Phil Lowe on Nov 29, 2015 at 11:52:11 pm

Here is the largest broadcaster in Detroit using FCP X in their news operations. When doing hands-on evaluation of other options, their editors preferred FCP X due to speed and ease of use. It has been so successful that E.W. Scripps Co. is now rolling out the same workflow to all their stations in the U.S.


First of all, depending on whom you ask, WXYZ-TV, Channel 7 in Detroit (studio actually located a mile-and-a-half down the road from the station where I worked in Southfield) isn't the "largest broadcaster in Detroit." Secondly, I saw that article. It's a "puff piece" on Apple's FCPX marketing page. You can literally find the same kind of breathless hype on EVERY NLE website! For instance:

“We need speed and stability for editing daily news from the work site, and recognized a clear need to transition our editing systems to file-based workflows to meet the growing challenges of our day-to-day operations, like up to the minute editing. We chose Grass Valley’s EDIUS because it supports real-time editing for growing clips, supports the latest file formats, provides excellent real-time editing performance, supports XDCAM and edits tapeless media efficiently, is engineered in Japan and offers support services and products which meet our needs.”

Tsutomu Okazaki, Technical Manager, Engineering Operations Division, Yomiuri Telecasting Corporation


You get these same kind of testimonials from every company, with their customers all saying how great and fast the company's products are. Avid has 18 pages of customer stories all praising its products!

But I digress. Before WXYZ (I used to know some of the guys working there) used FCPX they used FCP7 and said the same things about it! Meanwhile, WDIV (Channel 4) and WJBK (Channel 2, where I worked) were using Avid systems and we were hitting our deadlines, just as quickly, too! Reading some of the remarks here, you'd think fast, non-linear editing hadn't even been invented until FCPX came along!

So no, I don't put any stock in a company's marketing materials. They're like any movie trailer of a bad movie: they're only going to show you the parts that make the movie look awesome!

To paraphrase what I wrote before, I may have to "do" FCPX, but I don't have to "dig" it. I have too much time and money invested in Avid to throw it all away for "iMovie Pro."

By the way, I once cut an entire news package on the history of the death penalty in Michigan in After Effects, because the piece consisted of anchor track and historical stills. So I'm not impressed to hear that someone cuts news in FCPX: I did it in After Effects! It doesn't change the fact that neither is designed for cutting news!


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Joseph Steiner
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Nov 27, 2015 at 11:39:43 pm

My goal is to create a one project which will combine short portions of several projects. I copied all of them to one library. Made a snapshot of each. Edited the first one. How do I put the next project in the same timeline for edit? Thanks.


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Patrick Donegan
Re: Combining projects in FCPX
on Dec 4, 2015 at 2:39:39 am

That would be a simple copy and paste operation.

Select the clips that you are wanting to bring into the timeline on the other timeline.
Switch to the target timeline.
Put cursor where you want the clips to start.

now all that you had selected gets pasted to the target timeline.


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