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Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?

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Tangier Clarke
Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 6:49:51 am

I have a drive with all of the media and so does the producer. I did y editing, but just want to send the project only. I could send an XML I realize, however I did color correction and adjustments using the built-in color board. The FCP X XML doesn't support that so the producer won't see that work so XML is out of the question.

Unfortunately when you try to copy the project to a new library it copies the original media too; even with optimized or proxy files unchecked as an option to copy those types of media.

It's amazing it's this difficult to simply send a project. There is one solution I found at this link (https://larryjordan.com/articles/fcp-x-10-1-collaboration/) which essentially suggests sending the backup file which is pretty good idea.

I had just wondered if there was a native way I hadn't come across, read about, or heard about yet.

Essentially all that would be needed is an extra option for the copy to new library feature that says "do not include original media".

Tangier


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 1:23:22 pm

From the Larry Jordan article you linked, doesn't this do what you what to do? The description is going in the other direction, but it's the same process.

"Import all media so that it is copied into a single library, then duplicate that library onto a second hard disk and give it to the producer. Because the media is stored inside the library, you don’t need to worry about cloning drives or matching file path names, the library handles all of that.

The producer opens the library inside their copy of Final Cut Pro X, creates a new project and edits a rough cut. When she is done with the rough cut, the producer selects the project and chooses File > Copy Project to new Library to create a new Transfer Library.

This creates a new library containing the project, with links to all the existing media. The producer sends that library back to the editor, who opens it, then drags the project into the existing library. At which point, the Transfer Library can be deleted."

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 3:16:33 pm

I and the producer do have copies of the same library. The problem Oliver is that there is no way that I can currently see that FCP X can just send only the project, even inside a library as is required, without at least copying the original media. When you create that transfer library File > Copy Project to new Library to create a new Transfer Library, even with the two options of bringing over proxy and/or optimized media, FCP X will still copy the original media into the new transfer library and it says it's going to do that. I don't want the media. The producer already has it. It's making a large transfer library with files I don't want and makes it even more difficult/time consuming to send to someone.

Sure I could let it copy all of the original media into the transfer library, then delete all of the media (either using FCP X or at the finder level inside the library package.

This is why someone on that link (I'll paste it below) had to explain a workaround using the backup file. It seems this is the best solution so far. It's sad to have to go through all of this just to send the project. A previous version of FCP X before the library model had the option of just duplicating the project only without media. I could not use unmanaged libraries as well, but I'd have to delete render files and such to keep the library small before sending it to someone else a transfer library.

One cool thing I use to make sure libraries are ion sync is I use Decimus Synk. It goes inside the library package and compares everything and makes sure they're in sync. However I only do that when I have both drives near me or I and the other person are on the same network. It's a fantastic part of my workflow.

Here's where I could be drastically wrong, but I don't think so just yet. If I copy the project to a new transfer library, having every option unchecked and FCP X still saying it'll copy the original media into the library, then perhaps the size of the library that's showing up in the Finder is not real. Rather it's counting symlink as media and calculating the size of the original media though it's not actually there - hypothetically. However when I go into transfer library package, that's not the case. The media is in fact there.


Here's the method I found on Larry Jordan's site from Chris:
"I seem to have found a workable solution to allow for transferring of events and projects between editors with managed libraries – exchange the backup file!

A hack, but it works. For example, both my assistant and I have the same managed library of a shoot. At this stage no editing has been done so no projects. She edits, making a few projects, events, whatever. When she is finished she lets me know and gives me the latest backup file. I open up that file – double click in the finder. Although this opens, usually it says that the original media data can’t be found so it opens as a new library with all the files highlighted in red as unconnected clips/media. All I have do then is drag the projects that my assistant made to the library I have with the media in. Everything is automatically connected. Perfect!

And to make things even easier, we are storing ours backups on dropbox so all my assistant has to do is make sure that it has backed up recently by checking the time code on the backup file name and then I just drag that backup file to, for e.g., the movie folder of my mac and then double click from there.

Seems to be a solution for sharing projects between editors both using a managed library in 10.1 anyway."

Tangier


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 4:57:42 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "When you create that transfer library File > Copy Project to new Library to create a new Transfer Library, even with the two options of bringing over proxy and/or optimized media, FCP X will still copy the original media into the new transfer library and it says it's going to do that"

I just tried it and it doesn't copy any media if the two options are left unchecked. The only thing in the Original Media folder within the new package of the copy is a sim-link to the media. In my example all media is external to the original Library file to start with. I normally never put actual original media into the Library file.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 5:09:48 pm

I missed putting in my above reply that I meant if you have both options unchecked. I left the word "unchecked" out.

Your scenario is exactly what is discussed on the Larry Jordan link I posted. My libraries are managed. Yours are not. I mentioned that as well near the bottom of my last reply - which I realize also should have been edited (typing too fast to get my thoughts down).

I said, "I could not use unmanaged libraries as well, but I'd have to delete render files and such to keep the library small before sending it to someone else a transfer library"

It should have been : I could use unmanaged libraries as well, but I'd have to delete render files and such to keep the library small before sending it to someone else a transfer library.

Tangier


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 5:10:49 pm

I will run another test again, but I've done it several times already. Folks (on that linked thread) pointed out that there is a difference in the way the copy project behaves depending on whether the library is managed or unmanaged.

Tangier


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 5:25:36 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "the way the copy project behaves depending on whether the library is managed or unmanaged"

When you have a managed Library and make a copy on the same drive, the internal Original Media files appear to be actual full-res media in both. But that's not the case, because the OS keeps the media from being doubled, even though it looks like it is. The test for this is to check the capacity of your hard drive. It doesn't change by the amount of extra media if you copy the managed Library.

But, when you then copy that Library off to an external drive, it copies the full media into that copy. This way you don't have media go offline. It's a "feature" between FCPX and OS X. When it comes to shared operations, I just think managed Libraries are a really dangerous way to work.

Some links:
http://www.provideocoalition.com/the-magic-of-hard-links
http://www.fcpworks.com/fcpx-hard-links-can-save-hard-drives/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 5:39:08 pm

Thanks Oliver. I'll look at those and give it another try. I've been used to working with managed libraries, but am open to not doing so. Pre FCP X my media was always separate from my project file. That's not to say that there aren't benefits to a managed library, but definitely worth exploring.

In the meantime, using the backup file has worked like a charm.

If I didn't have to worry about sending a project with color correction done, I could just use XML. Problem solved.

Tangier


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 5:57:09 pm

[Tangier Clarke] " I've been used to working with managed libraries, but am open to not doing so. Pre FCP X my media was always separate from my project file"

Ever since you could place the Library anywhere and set up preferences to have media folders outside of the Library, you can operate like you used to in FCP "legacy". I usually create a production folder for that job and place everything pertaining to the production in organized subfolders, outside of the FCPX Library file.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 6:57:49 pm

I understand your comment about the dangers of using managed media in libraries in a shared project. I wonder whether that applies to a one person project, typical of what I do. It is very convenient (lazy?) to let FCPX manage the media by storing it in the libraries. I do keep original media elsewhere as a backup. To keep the media outside of the library would require some discipline and a rigorous file structure, which I haven't developed.

Thoughts?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 7:56:24 pm

[Claude Lyneis] "It is very convenient (lazy?) to let FCPX manage the media by storing it in the libraries"

It's not necessarily wrong and it's an idea that Apple adopted from Avid. The reason that it's good is solid media relinking. I just prefer to have better and direct control of the media I work with.

For example, given the choice, I don't work directly with DSLR H264 files. I try to process them before I bring the files into an NLE. Just an example. But ultimately it depends on how organized you are. FCPX is trying to protect the unorganized editor from his or herself.

I wrote a bit about that here:
https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2015/08/07/final-cut-pro-x-organizing-ti...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 10:55:00 pm

So true Oliver. It helps people stay more organized. And for someone like myself with a background in computer science and develops FileMaker and SQL based databases perhaps that's why I like it. I am playing IT person so much it's nice to have something that can help manage things when other users don't have the care for organization to the extent that I do or at least try to.

Tangier


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Joe Marler
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 11:35:11 pm

[Oliver Peters] [managed libraries] "The reason that it's good is solid media relinking."

Everyone may know this, but current versions of FCP X will scan the entire hard drive to relink media. IOW when encountering the red "Missing File" icons, you can select Files>Relink Files>Locate All, and select the hard drive, not a folder. It will scan the entire hard drive and relink every file, even if the folders are all different between source and destination.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 11:51:10 pm

[Joe Marler] "current versions of FCP X will scan the entire hard drive to relink media."

The key difference is when you import media into a Library. FCPX embedded data into the file or rewraps or transcoded the file depending on what it needs.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 12:40:29 am

Joe, I didn't know this. Thanks. Usually direct it to the first clip and it finds the rest; being that I try not to abstract my files into folders for the very purpose of simpler relinking.

Tangier


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Craig Alan
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 10:15:34 pm

Some but not much rigor involved.

Create a folder in the finder on your media raid with the same NAME AS LIBRARY.
Put labeled folders in this "same NAME AS LIBRARY" folder:

FC BACKUPS
MEDIA
CAMERA CARDS (or whatever the original media files are called)
RENDER

In FCP X highlight the library
in the inspector click modify settings and chose the above folders.

done.

I keep a folder on my desktop with the above named folders and drag them into the NAME AS LIBRARY folder when I create a new library.

All components of each project is now stored in one folder and can easily be backed up.

EXAMPLE: inside finder folder called CAMAREE 8-15-15





Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 11:05:41 pm

I follow similar practices although my folders are different and I leave backups in the MacOS Shared account so it's not bound to a user. This is only for the machines that aren't mine exclusively like my laptop. Though the structure below is more for the final archive so it's what I expect editors to give me as a package when done.

My folders are:
shoot sources
editorial files (for XML and trimmed FCP X libraries - since the shoot files were already backed up no need to keep the original shot media)
audio archive (D, M, & E, mixes, PT, Logic Pro X, files, mixes, etc.)
motion graphics
thumbnails
miscellaneous
exports (for masters and web versions)

Additionally I employ a file naming structure for created content so that we're not relying on folders or rely on them as little as possible. I try to keep things with search in mind and I tend not to use short names for shows because people may not know what it refers to without using some other database, excel, sheet etc. So my project name in full is in the file name and library name. The event name can be abbreviated

For example:
lower 3rds (from Motion or AE or whatever) = lower3rd_[whatever the name is]
motion graphics = mgrafx_[name of file with version
...

Archive goes to backup drive, drive gets cloned and synced with Decimus Synk, then a run of NeoFinder on one of the drives, then to the shelf (or drawer) both drives go until the next archive...repeat until drives are full and more need to be purchased.

Tangier


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 10:52:31 pm

Haven't had any issues using managed libraries even in a multi editor workflow. In some ways I prefer it. It's just the steps in sending a simple project. Though I am not working on a SAN and perhaps some of you are.

Tangier


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Craig Alan
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 3:52:52 am

[Tangier Clarke] "Haven't had any issues using managed libraries"

Yes its easier to "share" a project if all is in the library. Though I think it makes sense to have Card copies elsewhere and the FCBackups elsewhere, even if imported media stays in library. An advantage to your way is backups of the library won't need to relink media the way a clone does if the media now resides on a different drive.

Do you know if a project can be recreated from just the card copies and a FCback up file?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 4:28:37 am

Actually, that's what we tend to do. Once we finish a project and complete the archive we will delete unused render files, proxy files, etc.

If need be we go into the library package, delete all media that we originally shot so all that's left is the library with music, stills, graphics, perhaps. The point is not to duplicate files and increase space because we already have the camera originals backed up to cloned drives before any editor gets their hands on it.

I won't say this is ideal but it does mean we don't have to buy archive drives as much because we're not doubling our space by keeping the card copies and the copies of the card FCP X brings over. One could wonder why we don't just keep the library original media in the library and call it a day; delete the camera card backups since FCP X copied it in. I considered that at one point, but the problem is that assumes that all of the media was imported. Not a risk I am willing to take.

After we've made all of our deliverables such as masters, stems, audio archives, etc. All that's left is a streamlined and lean FCP X library that we can connect back to the camera originals and FCP X will transcode as needed. And we export XMLs of the final project and the entire library.

Next stop in this process is trying out KeyFlow Pro by years end. We've really wanted access to all of the keywords and metadata from FCP X from several projects; akin to what Final Cut Server did. Once we archive a project all of that searchable valuable information is locked with it; something NeoFinder can't help us with.

Tangier


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Craig Alan
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 14, 2015 at 10:34:37 pm

if he not going to do any editing then highlight the timeline and export.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Bret Williams
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 4:00:31 am

Simply do what you said and copy the project to a new library. It will be instantaneous if it's on the same drive as it actually uses hard links to duplicate the media without taking up any space. This of course is only the case if your media is internally managed. If it's externally managed then the new library will be empty anyway and you're ready to go. But if the media is internally managed, you just need to consolidate the media out of the library to a separate folder. Like I said it doesn't take up any extra drive space or much time. Your client should open the library and copy the project to his library.

XML doesn't carry color board info?


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Bret Williams
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 4:48:25 am

Just did a quick test and color board info comes across just fine. I've never seen anything that doesn't come across FCPXML going between FCP X and FCP X. The aforementioned concept certainly works, but just export the project as an xml and bring it back in on the client's end.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 4:59:58 am

Perhaps I need to do a reinstall. The reason this all got started was because I was sending XMLs to someone else who had a duplicate of the library and none of the color using the built in color board was being maintained.

Sorry for spreading misinformation everyone. On this search I did read that the XML did not support color. Now reading your post I went to the FCP X XML format description doc and it says that in XML version 1.3 it does support color.

We're on FCP X 10.2.2. One computer using El Capitan, the other Yosemite.
Back to the drawing board. Interesting though that nobody caught that throughout this thread or perhaps I just read over that too.

Tangier


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Bret Williams
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 5:02:06 am

Transfer libraries are probably your safest bet. But if the XML works for what you're doing I'd try that. Can always send a low res QT with it to make sure things match up.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 5:03:30 am

Yeah, you're probably right. Though if the color was maintained in the XML i sent I probably would have never started this thread.

Tangier


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Bret Williams
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 6:05:44 am

I wonder what setting you used? For example for my test earlier, I used XML 1.5 and chose Basic. I know that certain things don't come across to Resolve if you use the wrong setting. Perhaps you don't get the color settings if you use extended or something. Opposite to common sense, I've heard the best to use is the basic or general settings.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Any way to just share a project without original media (FCP X10.2.2)?
on Nov 15, 2015 at 6:07:15 am

I do know that I tend to leave it on extended instead of basic. I'll have to visit specifically what those settings are for and how to better use them.

Tangier


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