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FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?

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David Axelrod
FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 5:21:15 pm

Hey everyone !

thanks for your help here!
I have the newest Mac book retina , fully maxed out . I find Final Cut Pro x to be insanely slow when it comes to working with effects specifically on projects in the 1920x1080 size. It sucks because it is almost impossible to get into a quick and fluid work flow.

My two main issues :

1 - slow edits when working with clips with effects ( magic bullet, etc ) . Beach balls always even to make a simple move for at least 10 seconds

2 - when I render a file ( even a share at 720p ) my MacBook becomes almost useless, completely bogged down with the task

Does this sound normal for a MCP maxed ? Is there wanting I can do to improve my performance ?

I am editing footage off the main hard drive , not an external .

Thank you !!


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 6:11:42 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Aug 18, 2015 at 6:16:30 pm

First no, it's not "normal."

But the moment you said Magic Bullet looks, my radar went off.

One aspect of X that people sometimes don't understand is that it ALWAYS tries to calculate changes to footage at the highest resolution possible. So when you use certain plugins, they can put a HUGE processing load on the software since it takes few if any shortcuts to process those effects at the highest quality possible - often in the background where it slows up the main software performance. This is why "every pixel fixing" software (Neat Noise Reduction is famous for this) - will grind X rendering to an exercise in frustration.

Also, if you have scads of partial render files from back when MBL was applied, that's doing nothing to increase your database loads and overall performance.

I'd do a fresh clean Library and a test on the same footage without the MBL applied. If it suddenly flies, then maybe do your edit with clean footage and apply the Looks last and go to a art museum or something while everything renders.

Just some suggestions.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Noah Kadner
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 6:17:03 pm

Yep- love Red Giant but some of their plugins are notably processor intensive on renders. It's just the nature of the beast. You might want to consider a Mac Pro if this is the sort of heavy lifting you see yourself doing often.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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David Axelrod
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 6:29:16 pm

Hey !

Thank you both for your reply.

I think your right. If I turn of the MBL things roll much faster. I also noticed if I am not working at 1920 things are fine in terms of not rendering my computer useless during a render. I'm also working with layers a bit .

One feature that would be some ( does this exist ?? ) GLOBAL turn off / on effects . So you could describe effects while you work and turn them on to preview / render . Similar to those "wireframe" modes . I have turned off effects while doing cuts but sometimes I have compound clips or layers and it's a pain to go into each and turn it off .

I guess that is an issue for another thread :)

Does anyone have luck working on a maxed iMac over a Mac Pro ? Just thinking cost wise.

Thanks again !!


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Tim Jones
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 6:30:25 pm

I agree with Noah. Since the 10.2 update, it seems that the background operations can really saturate the rMBP. I've just learned to let it go until the background (or not-so-background) tasks complete.

I've even found this to be true on built-in Motion transitions and generators.

But, as Noah also said, these issues disappear on my Mac Pro.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.tolisgroup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 8:05:05 pm

Actually this is quite normal. All third party effects will bog down FCP X and a laptop - even the best MBP - is NOT designed as a robust workstation for effects and rendering. The built-in FCP X effects are less taxing because they use native effects and are not just Motion templates. Therefore they tend to run in real-time even with a stack of several filters. Load up a lot of third-party plug-ins and prepare to hear your machine scream for mercy ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 9:16:38 pm

Very few FCP X effects are native (quartz composer?) effects. Can almost always right click and open them in motion. Even their basic color filters like hue and saturation are Motion templates. Blur, sharpen, crop and feather... all motion templates. All the looks are templates. Only things like the draw mask, keyer, and color board are native.

But even when X is being a dog and beach balling or lagging, with 32gigs it doesn't seem to affect other apps like Motion or PS which I'm often running simultaneously.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 10:41:52 pm

[Bret Williams] "Very few FCP X effects are native (quartz composer?) effects. Can almost always right click and open them in motion. Even their basic color filters like hue and saturation are Motion templates."

I've built custom effects that way, too. I'm still not convinced that the native FCPX effects are Motion templates. You can't find those files anywhere on the hard drive as Motion templates, that I'm aware of.

FCPX uses the FxPlug/Motion effects engine under-the-hood. I think these are editable, which creates a new Motion template, but the original is a native effect as a starting point, just like those in Motion.

For example, the hue control in the FCPX effect uses different color science than the hue control in Motion. So these are actually not the same. I ran into this issue here:

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/building-fcp-x-effects-update...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 11:12:27 pm

It's easy enough to tell which one's are not actually Motion effects- if you can't open them in Motion. For example Cross Dissolve is a native effect not a Motion built-one.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 18, 2015 at 11:18:19 pm

[Noah Kadner] "It's easy enough to tell which one's are not actually Motion effects"

If you are at liberty to say, is a third-party Motion template the exact same as the identical effect within FCP X, assuming similar controls? Are Motion templates created by a user using Motion more or less taxing than say a commercial filter that's appear as Motion templates?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:09:05 am
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:09:44 am

I wouldn't know to be honest- that's a bit more under the hood info.

But generally speaking, if you're working with a 3rd party effect that uses only Motion to be developed then it should be comparable in performance to a 'built-in' effect made from only Motion components. It's when a 3rd party UI, rendering engine, etc. gets into the mix that the differences in coding begin to emerge more readily.

Also if you notice you have the ability within Motion to publish much more of the Motion interface to FCPX than most plugins actually do. I guess this is to avoid overcomplicating effects within FCPX.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:32:55 am

In your HUE example, did you create your filter from scratch in Motion, or did you duplicate the one in FCP X? Sounds like you were trying to recreate what they did from scratch.

The filters in X that aren't native and can be opened in Motion obviously exist somewhere or they wouldn't be able to magically create a duplicate Motion project from thin air.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:40:22 am

[Bret Williams] "Sounds like you were trying to recreate what they did from scratch."

Nope. I used exactly what exists in Motion. I took the existing parameters and published them. There are actually some other threads around here confirming this change in color science.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 1:15:57 am

Why not "duplicate and open in Motion"? If that functioned differently then you'd prove your case in a matter of seconds.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 2:08:25 am

One other note from your article. You may have realized it now, but you mentioned that to change the order of which published items appear in the inspector you have to unpublished and republish. Not true. Just drag them up or down in the project pane under published parameters. You can rename and drag items up and down in the list. This is essentially where you're building the interface for X. If you'd rather a published parameter be at the top, just drag it up there.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:04:37 pm

Thanks for the tip.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bret Williams
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:17:13 pm

After a little testing last night, I discovered that the hue/sat effect is still a motion template, but that your're correct that it definitely uses different color science. But I think it's just a different filter. You can copy and paste their filter in Motion and create your own hue/sat filter that will be exactly the same. You can even add it to your favorites too if you like the X version better. Seems to me that the X version of the filter was tweaked to stay within certain limits. Blacks won't drop under 0 and the Luna is more limited than Motion's filter. Motion's filter quickly goes way out of broadcast safe limits.


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David Axelrod
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 4:05:57 pm

Thanks again for everyone's replies on this .

Something else or note, which probably makes my issues with computer slowdown more obvious. I often work with multiple "layers" with some clips overlaying each other on the time line. So in some cases there may be the equivalent of two "story lines" with their own effects being rendered together.

Still, I noticed when I am rendering a file that is not as large as 1920 x 1280 my computer runs fine, but once I'm rendering at 1080 it slows down to almost unusable .

Does anything help this, like, for example, using an external drive for the project file ? What about proxy files ? I have always been a bit confused how that works as whenever I get into that my clips disappear.

Thank you again !!


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Tim Jones
Re: FCPX : insane computer slowdown when rendering on maxed 2015 MacBook retina - normal ?
on Aug 19, 2015 at 4:11:05 pm

What you're seeing is mainly related to the slower CPU speed and lower performance Nvidia GPU on the rMBP. I have Thunderbolt attached RAID-0 SSDs as my working environment (over 800MB/sec sustainable I/O) and my rMBP still does this (and it's also a fully loaded i7 unit).

For now, get yourself a good coffee maker and enjoy a fresh cup any time your need to render effects / transitions / etc. ...

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.tolisgroup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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