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FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator

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Mark Suszko
FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 15, 2015 at 4:05:30 am

So, I *thought* I was following best practices. I have P2 cards with DVCProHD files on them, and the first thing I did was copy the complete card into a new folder on my AV drive, and only THEN did I import the footage into FCP, checking the box for making it's own in-system copy.

4 hours editing later, I want to export a master file, and the entire share option menu is grayed out. I guess it is looking for the original media on the card, though I was certain my import was from the AV drive. Pulling the card from my P2 reader results in the bins and timeline filling with a lot of red picons. I mean a LOT. Like "Sonny Corleone at the tollbooth" red. But not *all* the footage: stuff i imported from another drive to the AV drive, then ingested into FCPX is there and intact. I put the P2 back in, and at this point want to force the system to re-link the media and render it and let me export my work before the sun comes up.

Advice gratefully accepted. I'll be here all night. Maybe.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 15, 2015 at 4:37:24 am

Eject p2 card.

Open Import Window.

Add all of the p2 folders that you copied to A/V drive to the "Favorites" list on the left side of import window by dragging and dropping the folders from import list to "Favorites"

File > Import > Reimport from Camera/Archive.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 16, 2015 at 10:48:49 am

Try Jeremys sage advice for this time.

For next time avoid your "finder copy stage" where you drag files into folders to start. X does not like loose files in folders so much. They are too often cut off from the useful metadata that X loves. X likes Mountable Volumes. Drives, cards, virtual clone bundles - stuff like that. So much that they built in a way to import and "volumize" your cards right in the import window. "Create Archive" is your friend unless you have a network that is providing virtual volumes from a server. Create a Camera Archive of each card first. Import your files off THAT into X as referenced media. (And back it up the archives for safety!)

That should make things easier.

My 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 16, 2015 at 10:16:56 pm

Say, Bill: I'm looking for the "Create Archive" setting you mentioned, and I don't see one on the screen or menus anywhere, can you give me a hint?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 16, 2015 at 10:59:24 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Aug 17, 2015 at 2:19:31 am

It's in the import window.

Camera archives are proprietary. Craig Seaman has also had major issues with them.

I tend to stay away from camera archives. You can always use Disk Utility to make a more universal disk image if that method is interesting to you.

If not, I routinely work from Finder copies of cards, and X can handle it, you just have to add a step before reimport, and also make sure X is done importing before quitting fcpx.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 5:17:37 pm

I don't actually use Apple's Disk Archive - tho I have and it works fine.

I mostly use Andreas Keil's excellent free utility: Create Disk Image - to make standalone Sparse Disk Bundles.

I like them because they make superb archives that can be cloned for multiple safety backups and when double clicked, mount exactly like a drive volume, so X sees them and instantly re-links to the involved storylines.

SCDI is here if you want to check it out: http://www.spherico.de/filmtools/

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 16, 2015 at 9:53:23 pm

Thanks, Bill. Thumb-tacked that note to the wall here.

I would be grateful to everyone for any additional opinions and suggestions on how to get the P2 footage out of the reader, into FCPX, and ready to edit/share to a rendered master file, or play off the timeline, in the most expedient manner possible. We're doing lots of run-and-gun ENG type work here and I can't afford slower methods. I'm stuck in one respect, that the P2 reader is limited to the speed of USB.

I have an Ultrastudio 4k hooked up for my output, using SDI to feed from the timeline over to the uplink rack. I also have access to an SDI AJA T-TAP.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 16, 2015 at 9:58:45 pm

Are you saying the method I outlined didn't work?


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 3:46:20 am

I use P2 cards.

I create a folder in the finder named something like
"P2 MELISSA 7-27-15 HA".
I drag the entire contents of the P2 card into this folder to copy it. FC has never had a problem reading it, importing it and keeping the name I gave the folder as if its the Camera name. It serves as a b.u. and I have needed it occasionally when the media that was imported got corrupted for whatever reason. Rare but has happened. My feeling about FC's archives is that it is a wrapper of sorts. I could be wrong but I'd rather use the original files contained in the card. I do not choose keep in place. FC copies it again into the library or in my case a media folder outside the library. Libraries can become corrupted as well. I'd rather have two copies of the media that are then referenced by the library.

Inside the folder mentioned above



I have even had a couple of times when FC could not read the P2 copy for whatever reason and I was able to copy the two files back on to a P2 card, put it in a P2 cam. play it. then reimport it into FC and viola all is good. When I first put it back in camera it does give an error message because it is not wrapped the way the camera wraps it. But once it in playback mode it sees the clips just fine and re-wraps the media as usual.

I also feel that a copy of the P2 is a safer bet in the long run if for some reason you want to import it into another NLE rather that hoping Apple's archive will play well with other programs.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 4:41:17 am

See, Craig, your method is what I do, normally.

The only difference is that I don't put the folder on the desktop any more, since that may create space problems in my boot drive if the files are massive. So, I make the empty folder in my AV drive, I double-click the "unnamed" picon on my desktop that represents the P2 card.

I then swipe thru both items there, highlighting them the same way your picture shows... and I drag that selection into the new folder in the AV drive. The wait for the P2 to transfer is painfully tedious, compared to using the card in the P2 reader and doing only proxy - which is what my 2 fellow shooters do, and I cringe at them because I learned long ago from Shane that that's a big no-no: that way lies madness. But... sometimes, the deadline to air means you have to be fast, rather than correct, and try to clean things up after the fact. The times I've gotten into trouble with FCPX, it always came out of trying to edit using only proxies.

Until the other night when I posted this thread.

I did things the "safe" way, outlined above, but still, FCPX somehow got confused and refused to recognize the media unless it was the live p2 card.


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 4:56:27 am

I do not put the P2 folder on my system drive or desktop. I put it in a master folder on my media raid.

If FC could not read the P2 folder with the card files copied in to it then it was not copied successfully.

FC imports the copied files way faster than the original card because my card reader is usb 2. Panasonic has released a P2 card reader with USB 3. That would help tremendously. But my Macs don't have usb 3.

This looks even better!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1118372-REG/sonnet_tb_p2_thunderbolt_...

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 6:42:47 am

ooooh, the chief engineer is gonna be mad when he sees how much cheaper and faster the Sonnet is than a full-boat P2 reader. OTOH, the Sonnet can't record or format or display and etc. like the Panasonic. Still, the speed boost and lack of needing to share the communal P2 reader for budget reasons makes it a tempting buy out of my own pocket. If I had *any* need for a p2 interface for my home system, I think I would buy this right away. As it is, I will start a cookie jar fund for it. Thanks for the tip!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 1:45:50 pm

What reader are you using now?

Also, can you give me an exact rundown of what happened? I confused if you imported from the card or hard drive.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 5:28:53 pm

FCP X is most happy reading "mounted volumes."

This allows it to operate well in networked systems.

A folder full of files is not a mounted volume.

It may work that way, but it's not the first place the software looks.
(Also consider that a mounted volume is ALWAYS on the root level - the desktop. A folder of files can be 5 levels deep today, and six tomorrow after a desktop cleanup. The files can be anywhere!)

X is a database. Knowing where things are is critical to any databases operations. That's why I think systems like disk archives and sparse disk bundles are the "easiest" way to work with X. No matter where the files are stored (hidden!) when the volume mounts, X can locate them in an instant.

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 5:48:00 pm

I find in a networked environment, disk images don't do much but cause pain, especially when sending out to other facilities for collaboration, and restoring media in case of loss, disaster, or a simple mistake.

I also don't rewrap (although P2 forces a rewrap). With MXF coming in natively to FCPX, there's less and less reason to use .mov, and therefore, less and less reason to make a disk image. Each MXF file is accessible to every computer. If something breaks or dies, all you have to do is go get the original media from backup (just the clips you need, not the entire card structure). Almost every other NLE or finishing device can read MXF files in all camera codecs, and this allows direct access to media instead of making yet another copy of media that is harder to track and subsequently remake (as Mark is seeing) in the case of disaster.

This is not discounting making disk images. That's a fine way of backup, but I prefer having direct access to the media that I can see on either a very large storage system, or from a list of catalogued archives. I can search for "ABCD1234.MXF" across what represent over 200TBs of media a lot easier than I go find a disk image, restore that disk image, and find the file or two that I need from a 128GB Disk Image (and hope that's the right one).


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 9:10:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This is not discounting making disk images. "

I understand Jeremy.

If someone is in a sophisticated enough operation to have large shared storage issues, Sparse Disk Images are more hassle then they are worth Post 10.0. Particularly since you'll already probably have facility level file back up going.

I agree Disk Images work best for solo practitioners and very small teams. Not networked operations. Which is how I read the OPs status.

I might be wrong.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 18, 2015 at 4:59:47 am

Not sure I'm buying this, Bill. A databased application can find any file on any drive if it knows the path where it was stored. If it gets moved you need to point it to the new path. And a disc image is a virtual drive. It is not just a folder on the root level of a drive. The problem with disc images other than the time spent having to create them is they are just like any drive - they can become corrupted and unreadable. So if you have a disc image on a drive you have doubled your chances of having your media become unreadable. I've had it happen to me twice. The drive it was on was fine but the disc image lost some of of its structure and was unmountable. Now I was using the sparse bundles as a way of protecting students' work in a class where hundreds of students shared 3 computers on multiple projects. So the percentage was very low but it did happen. I believe it happened (but this is a guess) when the disc bundle was being mounted and either the system crashed or there was a brown out to the electrical flow to the raid. I spent a lot of time with tech support from companies like disc warrior to see if I could get the bundle to mount but nothing would do the trick.

However, FCP X version 1 was designed to only work with one library on the root level of any attached drive. So maybe there is something to your theory that the root level is somehow more accessible to its database than putting it in any location that makes sense to the end user. However, libraries too can become corrupted and the idea of storing and opening all your projects overtime you open FC made no sense and was a recipe for disaster. Sparse bundles came to the rescue as a work around. Many virtual drives on one media raid = many root levels.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 3:47:30 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Aug 18, 2015 at 2:34:20 am

[Mark Suszko] "I did things the "safe" way, outlined above, but still, FCPX somehow got confused and refused to recognize the media unless it was the live p2 card."

By the way, this is what I mean. Drag the folder that holds the P2 media on your A/V drive like this:




Or do it from a Finder window like this:





Then choose File > Import > Reimport from Camera/Archive.




You'll get a warning like this:





Click Continue.

You should see a little white clock on the bottom of each clip while it reimports.

You have to add the folder to favorites, though, or else this doesn't work.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 17, 2015 at 9:54:21 pm

(sitting here furiously scribbling notes)

Please, do go on: I'm learning a lot from this discussion.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 18, 2015 at 2:36:34 am

[Mark Suszko] "Please, do go on: I'm learning a lot from this discussion"

Sorry, I should have drawn an arrow to the "favorites" section on those import windows to represent the drag and drop you have to do.

I updated the images in my last post: https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/344/39120

If this method doesn't work for you, please let me know.


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 18, 2015 at 4:42:25 am

FWIW I have found that when FC can't read a copy of a P2 card, that if I copy the copy back onto an empty P2 card and then let a P2 camera read the contents (clips) and then reimport the card back into FC. FC will be able to read it and import the clips. The camera will initially give you an error message but if you ignore this it will rewrap the P2 footage in a form it can play back.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 18, 2015 at 4:46:14 am

Importing in to a new library also usually works.


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 19, 2015 at 10:07:24 pm

I have had mixed results trying to copy files back into the P2 reader or the kiPro drive. Doesn't always work for me.

(back to the fairgrounds, moo)


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX holding my timeline hostage; need a negotiator
on Aug 19, 2015 at 10:47:23 pm

the clips themselves are iffy but the original files copied from the P2 cards in one folder have never failed me. The camera gives an error message but then rewraps them in the playback mode.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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