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Michael Hancock
Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 3:38:29 pm

Couple questions about trimming in FCPX.

1. Once you expand audio, you cannot trim Video and Audio at the same time without first collapsing the audio back into the video? I have mapped "Expand all Audio/Video" and "Collapse All" to my keyboard so I can expand/collapse everything without having to use the mouse to close clips, but it's a lot of extra buttons to do a simple video/audio trim. Hopefully I'm missing something here?

2. JKL trimming - that doesn't exist yet in FCPX, does it? If it does, how do you get it to work?

3. Using the keyboard to select edits for trimming inside a secondary storyline or on a connected clip - if there's an edit point in the primary it defaults to selecting the primary. Is there a way to force it to select the connected clip or secondary storyline instead, using the keyboard? If there's no edit in the same place in the primary it selects the connected clip/secondary storyline just fine, but if there's an edit in the primary it seems you're out of luck?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 4:08:47 pm

[Michael Hancock] "I have mapped "Expand all Audio/Video" and "Collapse All" to my keyboard so I can expand/collapse everything without having to use the mouse to close clips,"

How is that more convenient than just a simple double-click?


[Michael Hancock] "but it's a lot of extra buttons to do a simple video/audio trim. "

Technically just one double-click more. No buttons. And why would even want the audio expanded if you're not even working on it? Kinda contradicts the whole GUI concept, no?


[Michael Hancock] "JKL trimming - that doesn't exist yet in FCPX, does it?"

Not yet, no. Has been requested frequently. The most constructive thing you can do is go here: http://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html

- RK

[Michael Hancock] "but if there's an edit in the primary it seems you're out of luck?"

____________________________________________________
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Michael Hancock
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 4:41:39 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "[Michael Hancock] "I have mapped "Expand all Audio/Video" and "Collapse All" to my keyboard so I can expand/collapse everything without having to use the mouse to close clips,"

How is that more convenient than just a simple double-click?"


I'm trying to minimize how much I have to use the mouse, so mapping those commands to my keyboard means I don't have to touch the mouse.



[Robin S. Kurz] "[Michael Hancock] "but it's a lot of extra buttons to do a simple video/audio trim. "

Technically just one double-click more. No buttons. And why would even want the audio expanded if you're not even working on it? Kinda contradicts the whole GUI concept, no?"


I prefer not to click the mouse whenever necessary. For reference, I'm coming from Avid and Premiere where 95% of my timeline functions happened with only the keyboard - and nearly 100% of my trim functions were keyboard based. Using the mouse takes me out of the edit and it isn't as efficient for the way I prefer to work.

The issue with FCPX's GUI in regards to audio/video trimming is that I am working on the audio and video at the same time. Sometime an audio only trim leads to an audio/video trim. The way it currently works I spend a lot of time expanding/collapsing tracks. The GUI is very limited in this respect and could be improved. I'll make a feature request.

[Robin S. Kurz] "[Michael Hancock] "JKL trimming - that doesn't exist yet in FCPX, does it?"

Not yet, no. Has been requested frequently. The most constructive thing you can do is go here:"


Thanks. I'll bookmark the link and submit my feature requests.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 4:57:41 pm

[Michael Hancock] "Using the mouse takes me out of the edit and it isn't as efficient for the way I prefer to work."

Which I'm assuming can only mean that you don't use skimming at all?? That imho being one of if not the top feature that speeds up my editing exponentially. Which is (obviously) why I have my mouse in the timeline 95% of the time anyway, so no loss there. Other than that I'm an avid keyboard-shortcutist, too. In the cases where it in fact improves my speed/workflow that is. But that scenario is not one that lends itself to improved speed for me. You may want to try and erase some of that muscle memory?


[Michael Hancock] "Sometime an audio only trim leads to an audio/video trim. "

Then simply use ] and [ i.e. ⇧] and ⇧[ without the need for expanding?? Or does that not do what you're talking about?

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Michael Hancock
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 5:38:29 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Which I'm assuming can only mean that you don't use skimming at all??"

I love skimming in the event browser (or whatever it's called). But not in the timeline when I've gotten to the trimming phase. I prefer precision at that point and find the skimmer to be way, way too imprecise. But I do use it in the rough assembly stage. I miss it when I go back to Premiere or Avid and I'm shuttling through long takes.


[Robin S. Kurz] " In the cases where it in fact improves my speed/workflow that is. But that scenario is not one that lends itself to improved speed for me. You may want to try and erase some of that muscle memory?"

It would lend itself to improved speed for me, though, which is why I'd prefer they add a function rather than require me to work less efficiently. Adding the functionality I'm looking for wouldn't take anything away from the people that don't need/want it. But I'm certain there are loads of editors that would love it.


[Robin S. Kurz] "Then simply use ] and [ i.e. ⇧] and ⇧[ without the need for expanding?? Or does that not do what you're talking about?"

I'm saying that I have my audio already expanded and make an audio only trim. Based on that trim I decide I want my shot to end 2 frames later (both audio and video). I want to leave my audio expanded, select the video and audio edits at the same time and trim them both 2 frames. You can't do that. You have to trim them separately, or collapse then trim. It's an extra step I'd prefer not to take.

Now, it may be incredibly difficult for Apple to add it to the program (I'm not a programmer but understand a "simple" change may actually be huge from the programming side), but from a workflow standpoint it's a very small tweak to GUI and wouldn't break any of the other functionality.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 6, 2015 at 10:36:36 am

[Michael Hancock] "Adding the functionality I'm looking for wouldn't take anything away from the people that don't need/want it."

Only my point was, that it's already there, just different (as with many things in X). You're just falling prey to the often observed use-as-I-want-it-to-work-and-am-used-to approach that many apply when using X imho, even though it makes for a worse workflow. Trying to get the app to adapt to oneself, not the other way around.


[Michael Hancock] "I'm saying that I have my audio already expanded and make an audio only trim."

Exactly. That's my point. There is, to me, no apparent logical workflow advantage to having your audio expanded all the time... except maybe to cater to the aforementioned. ;)


[Michael Hancock] "Based on that trim I decide I want my shot to end 2 frames later (both audio and video). I want to leave my audio expanded, select the video and audio edits at the same time and trim them both 2 frames. You can't do that."

Sure you can. Since, from decades of editing experience, I'm going to allege that you'll be trimming BOTH the vast majority of the time, you want to leave everything COLLAPSED and merely use the aforementioned shortcuts as needed for the (comparatively) few times you just need audio. Which may still not be perfect for what you're used to, but that simply is the way it works and imho a far more efficient workflow than what you're doing. Since with your approach you're catering much more to the exception, not the rule. Either way there's no getting around the expand/collapse. Only that way, you're doing it far less. IOW I'd say you're doing it backwards which is (obviously) frustrating you.

But then, I don't actually even bother with the audio until picture lock, so this issue couldn't even arise for me in this form.


[Michael Hancock] "(I'm not a programmer but understand a "simple" change may actually be huge from the programming side)"

I'd say, considering how it is set up and meant to work, that would be anything but simple, yes. I much rather see a better display of L and J-cuts in the timeline before any of that. But I'm pretty sure Apple knows that audio, next to CCing, is one of the areas that need some TLC in the next updates, so we'll see. But then I think if you concede to changing your workflow and habits as described, it just may resolve itself.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 7:48:08 pm

IT would be great if FCPX had kb shortcuts to let you navigate up and down the layers (or lanes) so that kb trimming would be more helpful outside of the primary. Keep asking for it, hopefully it will get done someday.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 8:00:55 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "IT would be great if FCPX had kb shortcuts to let you navigate up and down the layers (or lanes) so that kb trimming would be more helpful outside of the primary. Keep asking for it, hopefully it will get done someday."

YES! I have a huge list of feature requests I'm going to submit and this is at the top of it.

That little ball that's on the playhead that shows you whats being show in the inspector - that could be the "focus" ball. It could determine which lane/clip your "select clip" or "mark clip" or "trim selection" affects, and if you could shift it up or down a lane or clip stack with the keyboard you could drive 99% of your timeline with the keyboard. And it would be FAST.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Trim questions
on Aug 5, 2015 at 8:22:18 pm

I thought that functionality would eventually come after Apple released it, but it has remained with the same functionality for a few releases now.

it would be very helpful.


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