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James Ewart
Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 10:23:29 am

I've got some underwater swimming to shoot and edit on Go Pros next week.

This will be for the web. I am just wondering if I will notice much benefit for shooting 1080p over 720p when it comes to the edit and final output. I have an option of 100 fps for 720p. I am thinking I am not going to notice huge benefits of the faster frame rate (compared to 50 fps) when I slow down by 50% or am I mistaken? I'm in PAL.

Or should I not even bother about PAL for the web and choose NTSC and shoot at 60fps (option 120 fps in 720).

I am going to shoot some basic tests over the weekend but would be grateful for any tips from anybody who is more familiar with these cameras.

Thanks in advance

James

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Ann Bens
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 12:08:22 pm

Underwater is best shot on 1080.
If you are on pal set the camera to pal.
You never know if you need the footage in a pal setting.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 3:00:35 pm

Thanks for this.

Out of interest you think it's better with the lower light or what other technical reasons?

Switched the camera across to your PAL 1080 50FPS settings.

Thanks


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Ann Bens
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 4:19:09 pm

Nope, turn that all off.
You can better do that in post.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 4:37:39 pm

Sorry turn all what off?

50fps? You think better at 25 fps?

thanks for the feedback


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Noah Kadner
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 9:12:45 pm

If it's for web and no broadcast footage is to be incorporated why do it in PAL? Do it at 24 fps and optimize for the web.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 3, 2015 at 9:36:34 am

Just thinking if I am slowing it down shooting at a higher frame rate might make it smoother no?


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 3, 2015 at 9:50:06 am

[Noah Kadner] "If it's for web and no broadcast footage is to be incorporated why do it in PAL? Do it at 24 fps and optimize for the web."

However I was thinking as we are 50hz over here and the market is essentially UK do our screen not refresh at different rates and there still better to be at 25 or 50fps?

Thanks for the feedback.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 3, 2015 at 9:58:13 pm

Here in Australia I'm generally shooting 25p but despite being a 50hz PAL country, not all screens are doing that.

Most computer monitors are showing 60hz or higher. It's rare for a computer screen to be able to sync to 50hz. A lot of cheap televisions are really just computer monitors with a receiver added so they're also running at 60hz. More mid-range big brand TVs are showing PAL at 50jz but not always.

I've been shooting 24p for almost everything except stuff destined ffor broadcast during the past year or so. Even with broadcast I don't think there'd be any great issue with me converting 24 to 25fps but some network QA departments can be painful so I err on the side of caution.

DVD players, Blu-Ray players, televisions, and even a lot of cheap computer monitors know what 24p is and will most often show it natively - and it's a fairly safe standard to use world-wide.

Anyway, the upshot is that for the web you might want to shoot 30 or 60p, for broadcast you might want to shoot 25 or 50p and for everything else 24p is the common denominator - but whatever you shoot in someone, somewhere isn't going to be watching at the frequency you intended..

FCPX doesn't really care what you shot it in so you may as well choose what's technically best for you ca,era and shoot away.

Or at least that's been my thinking in 2015.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 4, 2015 at 4:00:08 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Jul 4, 2015 at 4:00:44 am

Thanks Jeff.

Am I deluding myself from my old film days that shooting digital at higher frame rates will result in a smoother slo mo should I wish to slow it down in a 30fps timeline if I have shot at 60fps? Of course I understand there is a difference but shooting progressively at these higher rates should result in better slo mo no?

I


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Craig Alan
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 5, 2015 at 5:31:16 pm

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/54/862133

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 6, 2015 at 5:56:39 pm

MODIFY >> INTERPRET FOOTAGE >> ASSUME THIS FRAME RATE


Is there this option in FCPX that I don't know about please?


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Doug Metz
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 6, 2015 at 6:33:04 pm

Hi James,

You would use the Retime function for this. When you choose 100%, one second = one second, regardless of framerate - this is what FCPX does by default when you've got an established framerate in your timeline.

There may be times when you want to play all frames of an unmatched clip - let's say you've got a 23.98 timeline and you want to use a 59.94 clip in slow motion using all of the clip's frames. In this case, you'd select your 59.94 clip, and check Automatic from the Retime menu.

Doug Metz

Anode


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 5, 2015 at 6:38:29 pm

I shoot sports and like to use 60p instead of 30 p because it does improve the slow motion sequences. Of course the faster the frame rate, the less light captured, which could be a problem shooting under water where the light level is likely very low.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 5, 2015 at 10:05:20 pm

As other have said, shooting a higher frame rate gives you more frames to work with. If an action takes one second (25 frames) and you slow it 50%, that action is now taking place over 2 seconds (50 frames). If you shot at 50 fps you have actual real frames to play back. If you shot 25 fps, there are only 25 frames so the software has to invent the extra frames. Optical flow does a great job of this but actually shooting the frames will always be that little bit better.

As also mentioned here, the faster you shoot, the more light you need.

Its always a trade-off between the importance of quality vs the convenience of just faking it.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Tony West
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 8, 2015 at 2:13:59 pm

[James Ewart] "these higher rates should result in better slo mo no?"

You are correct James. The higher the speed you shoot at the smoother and cleaner the slo-mo

That's what we do in sports. We use high speed cameras that can shoot 4 thousand frames per second.

If you have some time before the shoot try shooting some test footage at different rates and see which one you like best.


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 8, 2015 at 5:22:06 pm

[Tony West] "If you have some time before the shoot try shooting some test footage at different rates and see which one you like best."

I go way back to when we shot over cranked 35mm and 16mm film cameras at 50, 100 or more fps.

I am not entirely convinced video cameras absolutely replicate this process or do they?

Is the relationship between aperture and frame rate the same with modern digital cameras such as go pro? With Arri Alexa and suchlike I understand it's very similar. But do these Go Pro cameras actually shoot at that frame rate or replicate it electronically somehow?

Thanks


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Tony West
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 8, 2015 at 6:16:18 pm

[James Ewart] "I go way back to when we shot over cranked 35mm and 16mm film cameras at 50, 100 or more fps.

I am not entirely convinced video cameras absolutely replicate this process or do they?
"


You can overcrank certain video cameras like a SONY EX1 and they look pretty good when you play back the slo-mo, but I don't think a Go Pro has that feature.

I'm not certain though.


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Bill Davis
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 2, 2015 at 11:35:22 pm

Also, if you've just in a pool ignore this. But if you go deeper than pool depth - light changes dramatically, losing all the red spectrum. Just something to look up if it's involved in what you're doing.
FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 5, 2015 at 10:09:12 pm

What exactly are you going to shoot? Depth? Sea? Lake? Swimming pool?
Unless you are going to shoot surface swimming competitions from underwater, and you think you'll need slow motions from that footage, I'd stick to 1080p 25 fps (especially if you are in a PAL country and you are going to mix that footage with other coming from other PAL cams). Usually, there's nothing really fast underwater, especially if you are shooting some breath holding swimming, while lighting can be an issue. I specialize as an UW documentarist, and I use a GoPro as a second angle in difficult conditions. I set 1080p 25 fps, delivering PAL. I uploaded some demos or various footage on Vimeo or Youtube, and they seems to play just fine. I think it's best to keep the FOV at max width, maybe tall HD if you don't have a display, so you have room to reframe the scene in post.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2014 MacBook Pro Retina, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini Monitor, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.9.4


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James Ewart
Re: Go Pro
on Jul 6, 2015 at 5:55:26 pm

[Fabrizio D'Agnano] "Unless you are going to shoot surface swimming competitions from underwater, and you think you'll need slow motions from that footage, I'd stick to 1080p 25 fps (especially if you are in a PAL country and you are going to mix that footage with other coming from other PAL cams). Usually, there's nothing really fast underwater, "

I need the slo mo for various reasons. Detailed analysis of fast swimmers but I'm not going to get time to do tests with frame rates and light levels so will stick with 25FPS. Can't imagine shooting NTSC at 30 will make much difference when slowed down.

I would have been interested to see how it held up at 72P 100fps in the light levels. But alas another time.

Thanks


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