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Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?

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Noam Osband
Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 18, 2015 at 2:08:17 pm

I have a project with lots of footage. I bought a OWC ThunderBay 4 so I could have the flexibility of four 4GB drives. I converted my footage to Pro Res (regular pro res, not proxy). I find the program can be a bit buggy and I get the beach ball spinning wheel more than a little. It usually goes away, although sometime I need to quit the program and restart. I'm tempted to say the problem is the ThunderBay, since it can take time to switch between its hard drives in the Finder window. But I was wondering if perhaps there is another answer.


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Noah Kadner
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 18, 2015 at 7:50:36 pm

Hard to say without knowing your full system specs.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 18, 2015 at 7:52:29 pm

That is a VERY good point. It's a late 2013, 15' retina. Thoughts? Below are the specs. As always, thanks Noah (and anyone else who might answer)

Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB
Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Processor: 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
Hard drive: it's 500GB and I have about 40 free GBs


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David Gregorio
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 19, 2015 at 1:48:57 am

There's a percentage of any HD that you should leave available, I think it's 20%. I have found performance to slow down when I fill up either my system or media drive above 80% or so. Exactly what you are describing (beach balls etc). Early on I killed a drive by running it at near capacity.
Also, you will see the best performance from thunderbolt drives if they are formatted raid 0 or 5.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 19, 2015 at 8:36:02 am

it could well be the drive but it could be anything, I once had a FCPX playback issue with beachballs and dropped frames that turned out to be caused an external audio interface but only if it was plugged into a port of a particular USB hub.

I spent two days rebuilding my entire system from scratch and making notes at every step to find that one. Sometimes it can be fixed with something as simple as deleting your FCPX preferences.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 22, 2015 at 6:44:03 pm

I'll try that Jeff. That said....I suspect strongly it's the OWC ThunderBay itself. When I'm in the finder and switch between different hard drives, it seems to take way too long each time. That's the reason I think that. Now I need to do some online research as to how to test my suspicions....


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 23, 2015 at 3:16:11 am

I think you're probably right about the OWC drive. i think you said you were using the drive in it as individual drives rather than a RAID? It could even be on of the drives being faulty rather than the box itself.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 23, 2015 at 7:19:51 pm

Bingo Jeff. I didn't have it set up as a RAID. Rather as 4 separate drives. I'm doing some internet research and it seems setting up a RAID 0 would require erasing all the data from my disks. Which stinks. Oof.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 26, 2015 at 2:31:01 am

RAID 5 is a lot safer. I have three of the Thunderbays connected to a 2013 Mac Pro. Two with 4x5 TB equals 15 TB available storage each and one with 4x3 TB with 9 TB. One extra drive space needed for parity information to allow restoring.

Fast reads and writes, Mid 400's to 500 plus MB/sec. when on the outer 30% of the drives. Not that full yet. As you know, with RAID 5 one drive can die and you can rebuild. I'm using the latest SoftRaid 5 software. Highly recommended. Will work with equal sized drives without the necessity of matching firmware often required with hardware controllers, like the QX, also by OWC.

Have gotten so used to SSD's it can seem as if it takes a while for the HDs to spin up, but when spun up access is very quick.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 26, 2015 at 1:35:49 pm

Turns out part of the speed problem was letting the non-used drives fall asleep.

More importantly....I've never heard of a RAID 5. So, from reading about it, it seems like that's my best bet: if I don't plan on backing up the 4 drives worth of exported files....but I don't want a RAID 0 cause I worry about one drive getting hurt....I can do a RAID 5 so that even if one drives dies, I can easily replace it and have my information restored? It seems almost miraculous as I'm reading about it.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 1:56:33 am

Yes, that is how it works. It will maintain your information through one drive failure. You can even get info off of the remaining drives until you replace the dead one, although it is highly recommended to replace it as soon as possible. Always good to have a backup of the same size on hand.

Had a feeling you were waiting for those drives to spin up causing your delays.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 4:23:15 am

Jim, I mean, given my scenario......is there any reason not to turn what i have into a RAID 5? I can't think of a drawback. It'll go faster and I dont need to worry if one drive dies. Any other potential downside? I plan on using the four drives in the bay together the whole time, so it's not like I will ever need to take one drive out.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 1:14:22 pm

[Noam Osband] "More importantly....I've never heard of a RAID 5. So, from reading about it, it seems like that's my best bet: if I don't plan on backing up the 4 drives worth of exported files....but I don't want a RAID 0 cause I worry about one drive getting hurt....I can do a RAID 5 so that even if one drives dies, I can easily replace it and have my information restored? It seems almost miraculous as I'm reading about it."

Noam, one thing I'd mention: RAID is not backup.

RAID-5 protects you against the failure of a single drive in the set, but there are plenty of other things that can happen that will ruin your day: multiple drive failures (if another drive dies during rebuilding, everything is gone), RAID controller failure, file system corruption, accidental deletion...

The redundancy in RAID is nice, but it mainly counterbalances the increased likelihood of drive failure with multiple drives. It is not a substitute for a good backup policy.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 1:53:54 pm

I hear that. But to back up the 16 TB of data is going to cost me hundreds of dollars. I'd rather take my chances....since I have the cards I'm exporting backed up. I figure if something catastrophic happens, I can always re-export the cards. And those are backed up in two separate places.

That being the case....is there any reason not to do a RAID 5 over the JBOD I have now? It'll be faster, right?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 2:14:08 pm

[Noam Osband] "That being the case....is there any reason not to do a RAID 5 over the JBOD I have now? It'll be faster, right?"

Go RAID.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Noam Osband
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 27, 2015 at 3:17:52 pm

Wow. This thread was super amazing. I'd done research on RAID....but didn't know about RAID 5. I was only thinking of RAID 0.

Two questions:

1 - Any useful things to know about setting up a RAID? I know I go through Disc Utility. Any random tips for a newbie on RAIDs?

2 - I already have logged lots of footage. I don't want to lose that work. I figure I'll save my FCP X library. I didn't import media to the library, as I reference external clips. If I log and transfer the exact same clips with the exact same name, will I have any problem with what I've logged already? Is there any chance the keywords and markers I've laid won't refer to the same frames? I don't imagine so.....but I wanna make sure.

Thanks as always guys. I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately. I'm finally starting to get past the beginner stage of FCP X, and it's in no small part due to this forum.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jun 29, 2015 at 4:38:50 pm

You will need the SoftRaid software from OWC or direct download from http://www.softraid.com . It does cost $179 direct, but is well worth it. Mark at SoftRaid is very responsive via email support. A very trustworthy product. Disk Utility doesn't do RAID 5, I believe only 0 and 1. OWC may have a deal, they bundle it with the Thunderbay. If safety is more important than speed, you can investigate a mirror setup where the data is duplicated on two or more drives at once, as well.

I've been using SoftRaid for about two years now.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Kiki Muchtar
Re: Is FCP X running a bit slow cause I'm using a OWC ThunderBay 4?
on Jul 23, 2015 at 1:45:30 am

Hi Jim,

If concern more about safety than space, should I just use RAID 1+0? Is it true that the different between RAID 5 and 1+0 is the capacity (1+0 setting creates less space)?

Cheers,
Kiki


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