FORUMS: list search recent posts

import behavior change

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Craig Alan
import behavior change
on Nov 23, 2014 at 12:47:24 pm

my current work flow using P2 cameras is to first make a copy of the camera card in the finder.

Then I import the camera card copy into FC. FC will create a folder in the browser in the selected event that is labeled with the date of content created.



For each subsequent import, FC will create a new folder in the browser with a new date

On two of our computers at work, this behavior has been replaced by FC creating only one folder in the browser and all media is imported into this one folder. On one computer its labeled "no data" and on the other its labeled "clips"

Now in this folder, the date of creation and all the regular metadata are intact and all the clips behave fine.

How do I return the browser to the old behavior?

Not sure if what I am illustrating is really a folder since I can't re-label it. At least AFAIK.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 23, 2014 at 7:37:46 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Nov 23, 2014 at 7:39:14 pm

Craig.

Consider some alternate thinking. What the database in X understands and knows how to directly access is basically constrained to Mounted Volumes.

What does this mean? It means that the actions you take exclusively on a card or drive or other device in the finder, before X becomes aware of it - are basically largely divorced from the X workflow.

All the desktop finder stuff we used to spend so much time doing. Organizing in desktop folders and subfolders - grouping files, naming folders, etc, is seen MUCH differently in X. That finder ID stuff will often flow into X as metadata ONCE when the asset is imported into X - but once it's imported, none of that really matters anymore. (the exception is VOLUME locations and ID. X cares about THAT a whole lot!)

The point, is that to operate X properly, you need to get your stuff INTO a Library - either via managed or referenced media - and make sure the database linkage is solid between the actual media pools and where the database expects to find them. Period. Thats it. The rest of the finder level stuff is pretty much irrelevant.

But you've still got a workflow that starts out by trying to clone FINDER stuff - the very stuff that X largely ignores.

My advice is to move your backup and protection workflow INTO the Volume system. Use the internal FCP X Create Archive system - or something similar. Make backup copies of your VOLUMES - NOT folders full of clips. Why? Because X sees Mounted Volumes. It actually does NOT see Finder mounted folders very well at all.

Specifically, find a way to CLONE your cards into a system that preserves their VOLUME data. Finder dragging files into a folder does NOT do this.

Hope that helps.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 23, 2014 at 9:43:54 pm

Not getting me, Bill.

Here's one in the finder



which shows up in the event as :



The work flow on all the computers is the same. On all the computers except two which changed the behavior as of a couple weeks ago, imported media card copies were as illustrated in the OP and here, a dated 'folder' in the event. each new import of a new P2 card copy would have the date of the original creation. The library organization was done in FC. -media, render and backups. Something got accidentally changed or there is bug that created this new behavior. Maybe some setting in the import window that became the default for all new imports. I Don't know, but I do like the other behavior better. Much rather import each card as a dated folder than all clips going into one long list in the event. And much prefer a date than "no data" as a folder of sorts in the event. Yes I could reorganize this content easily within FC, but that is extra time and I like the way it continues to import on all other stations.

On a side note FC imports the finder folder names and tags as keywords if you check those options. And I like having my finder folders organized as well as the FC library organization. They both work independently and have a relationship.

The purpose of my making a copy of the media card first is so I have a back up of the card outside the library in case the library gets corrupted or media gets erased either deliberately or by accident and is needed later. I copy it first because once its copied into our thunderbolt raid it then imports faster into FC. The card reader is USB 2. I also like the finder copy better than an archive because the copy is universal (I doubt panasonic will stop supporting it) and the archive may at some point not be read by another program or even an update of FC (who knows). I even find that FC reads the original card structure better than its own archive.

Anyway any thoughts on why FC may name the event folder 'no data' or 'clips' rather than by date as illustrated above? Maybe a metadata column is selected in the import or something? Also what is the container called that these clips are going into?



I can drag the clips to another event and then this container will disappear. I can't drag the container itself so its not a traditional folder.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 9:10:29 am

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I have a couple of personal fetishes that I've developed with X that I rarely let go of. One is to always work with referenced media pointing to some form of integrated card clone - NEVER a finder based storage location. ( the exception is short, low risk jobs like VO work where I'll work Managed Media)

The other is to do both secondary and tertiary card clone backups - along with XML clones of my Libraries.

If your finder-based workflow meets your needs, then by all means, go with it. There certainly isn't just one right way. I've only done two gigs in the past year involving P2 cards and they were both short duration. So I never had to manage them in a consistent workflow. As a rule, I always worry about metadata separation when I put in a finder stage in any workflow, but that's just me.

Hopefully Bret's suggestion put you on the right path.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 2:25:10 pm

[Bill Davis] "referenced media pointing to some form of integrated card clone - NEVER a finder based storage location"

Referenced media means that the media itself is not in the library which means its stored somewhere else in the finder. For that matter, the library is stored in the finder.

Not sure what you mean by "integrated" card clone. My card clone is copied by FC to a media folder that was created in FC (highlight the library and choose locations in the inspector) and referenced in the library. The only thing I am doing perhaps differently than you is I am copying the original P2 card in its original structure in the finder rather than archiving it in FC. I could open it in FC and store in the media folder and reference it in the library but then I'd need to back it up after. For me in case something goes foul during import, I'd rather back it up first in its original form.


[Bill Davis] "The other is to do both secondary and tertiary card clone backups - along with XML clones of my Libraries. "

So how do you back up the card clones? And how do you XML clone the library? For certain projects I'd like to learn this. I assume you are doing this within FC?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 27, 2014 at 6:38:08 pm

[Craig Alan] "The only thing I am doing perhaps differently than you is I am copying the original P2 card in its original structure in the finder rather than archiving it in FC."

My concern is that I'm not sure it's possible to do that. If you're doing a "drag copy" in the Finder, you'divorcing those files from the volume metadata that is attached to the Card (or drive or mounted volume.) (this presumes I'm understanding what you're doing!)

I have no clue as to whether that metadata is also at the file level (stuff like the camera settings, creation date, etc, etc, etc.) It might be. But it also might not. I simply don't risk it. I want to clone at the TOP level whenever possible. And that means cloning the VOLUME originally created. And that's incompatible (I believe) with finder copying anywhere below the Volume level. The Create Archive function in X does exactly this. It clones at the volume level. So that's my standard.

[Craig Alan] "So how do you back up the card clones? And how do you XML clone the library? For certain projects I'd like to learn this. I assume you are doing this within FC?
"


Card clones are virtual Volumes. They mount just like plugging in an entire drive. So the clone can be finder copied without any metadata loss. This is exactly how they differ from a folder of files INSIDE a volume.

XML clone is easy. Just take a second before you close down a FCP X workspace to A) Select either a Library or an Event within it (if you just want to backup the Event) then under the File Menu - Export XML It's just a simple text file that if you double click it later, will launch your Library or Event where it was when you made the XML copy. And it's all within X. Including the Create Archive function which is in the Import Window - and allows you to Clone the volume representing a whole mounted card or disk or drive directly from within the software.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index


Craig Alan
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 27, 2014 at 7:34:32 pm

Here are two looks at a finder copy of the same P2 card





These are not clips in a folder. It is the contents of the P2 card - exactly how it appears in the P2 card.
The import window sees this folder exactly as it sees a P2card - it sees it as clips with metadata attached.

They appear in the import window of FC with all their metadata intact.

They even copy back to a P2 card, which then can be read by a P2 cam

The outer wrapper is different and the camera does initially show an error warning, but then it opens fine in the clip window of the camera.
Once it loads in the clip window the camera no longer has a problem with the wrapper and in fact will continue to record onto the P2 card if there is room.
In other words it rewraps it back to Panasonic's default.

Early on I had a situation where FCP X would not read the files from a particular camera because it was shot at a frame rate not supported by FC. I copied it back to a P2 card then loaded into a P2 camera and then played out the clips SDI HD to a KIPRO. It was recorded in apple pro res 422 which of course FC could import. There I lost all metadata and clip divisions - it read now as one big clip with the date of the copy.

My concern with a FC camera archive is that it is wrapped in a way that might not be read in the future. I don't think that panasonic will stop supporting their file structure but Apple might.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 23, 2014 at 11:53:57 pm

Everything is not an excuse to ramble about the merits of a database driven file management system.

A quick look at the screen shot and it appears to me that Craig simply isn't turning on "group clips by content created" in the browser. (the little doohickey at the bottom left that looks like a gear. I'd guess it's set to "group clips by scene" because if I do that in my browser I get a grouping labeled NO DATA.

Those aren't folders in the screenshot. They're simply sortings. Folders in the browser look like folders. I'd say on some of the systems someone has turned off group by creation date and set it to group by scene. X never creates folders. Only the user can create folders. You can create keyword collections based on folders in the finder, and you can group keyword collections into folders created in the browser.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 3:09:37 am

Thanks Bret. Does the trick and another good tool to help organize. Knew it was something like that. Kinda cool they added headings to a sort. What sort gets "Clips"? Can't bring up that one. Oh well, when I get back to work the one that has that will make it obvious.

Is there anyway (now that I've been using the feature for 5 minutes) that I can get different events in the same library to use different sorts. On one project I'm working on, many events are of a multi-cam shoot and I like seeing them by "camera name" because I named each folder in the finder with date and camera name (angle) and it appears in the browser that way sorted by camera name. But others are single camera clips and it reverts to "no name" rather than the date created because it is sorted by camera name and there are none. I could of course add one in the camera name column.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 3:53:32 am

I couldn't get clips to come up. I just recognized the date created view and was able to get the no data to come up but not the clips thing.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 3:59:48 am

I guess sort is the wrong phrase. Group, as it's called, is better, since there's also a sort setting isn't there?


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: import behavior change
on Nov 24, 2014 at 6:40:17 pm

kinda a hybrid. it has the twirl triangle thing to see contained files like a folder. but if emptied, it disappears on its own. its not quite a sort because each date for example is under its own 'heading' not one long list.

anyway very useful and now I get it. I think I knew this once when I first learned FC but then you fall into workflow habits and forget stuff you don't use. i'll see soon where "clips" came from. "no data" was the one that had me concerned. Not something you want to hear when you are dealing with media files. But all is good now.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]