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Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X

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David McClellan
Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 7:41:13 pm

Just wondering what your strategy is for hundreds of clips a la feature film sync and prep. Been used to doing it in 7 with plural eyes. For this new feature I am posting I plan to organize each scene into separate folders. Label each vid clip with corresponding matching sound clip(s) - our sound guy did not label anything on his recorder so - fun times there... Then sync in plural eyes - export XML for X. Open XML in X and check sync in timeline - shut off all video scratch audio tracks - trim to action in timeline and finally create compound clips of each take. Then reorganize bins in X and create new project with only the new compound clips for each respective scene and then add take metadata to prep for edit.

Is there a better way? What is your strategy for this process.

-DM


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 8:54:31 pm

You might want to look at Sync-N-Link X from Intelligent Assistance. However it requires common TC.

Sam Mestman's workflow article is also a good read:

http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies-better-fcp-x-red-feature-film-workflow...

http://www.moviemakersub.moviemaker.com/diy/movies-better-final-cut-pro-xre...

http://www.moviemakersub.moviemaker.com/diy/movies-better-final-cut-pro-xre...

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 9:16:10 pm

Yes - there is no common TC here.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 9:17:24 pm

What about just using the built in synching in X?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 9:22:08 pm

Yeah I may just do that. Organize everything in scene folders and sync in X.


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Craig Alan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 16, 2014 at 10:00:11 pm

I found x does a good job. I'd try it first and only consider something else if it falls short.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 12:12:01 am

Yeah - I'll give X a go - I'm still organizing all of the sound files and setting up the folder structures etc... I was just wondering what other people are doing for syncing on feature length stuff with lots of footage and no TC but this seems to be the way to go.


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Craig Alan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 12:28:19 am

Please post your experience. I am in early stages of a longer format film using one of three cams for sound and will need to sync TB's of footage. No given run will last more than 70 min but I have no experience with this amount of media.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 12:36:09 am

[David McClellan] "I was just wondering what other people are doing for syncing on feature length stuff with lots of footage and no TC"

I had tried an alternate method on a short. There I used the "open in timeline" function to embed audio into each master clip - synced by slate. I would not recommend this. It worked fine during the edit, but I had all sorts of trouble when passing audio over to my sound designer/mixer.

FWIW, PluralEyes also has the capability to generate new media files with the picture and clean audio merged into new clips.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 12:45:56 am

Yeah I tried that export new media in PE and on certain clips I noticed some color shifts in the skin tones on the exported files. I'll test it further just to be sure but this would be the simplest way for sure. Synch in PE then export a new file with audio replaced.


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Bill Davis
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 6:05:19 am

David,

It sounds overly complicated to me. X's synchronized clip workflow is pretty darn accurate if you have a decent scratch track on you're camera files that allow X to match the second system audio. For me the key is that as soon as you get each synchronized clip created, Immediately reject both the original video and audio source files and work with "Hide Rejected" enabled. That should yeild exactly what it appears you want (hide all but one clip of each take with good audio) without all the export/import hassle. It's certainly worth a test, anyway. As to the missing audio clip labels, dig into the sound clip metadata in the inspector by trying one of the more comprehensive views that go beyond the General view - and you might find a sort field that can order your sound takes to match the video. If so, use the X custom file renaming functions to match them to the video file names. it's will make syncing stuff a whole lot easier.

X has really good tools in both these areas.

Finally, if you run into serious problems, let me know. I'm sure Sam Mestman or Mike Matzdorff in LA would be happy to trade an email or two with you to get you past any serious hurdles. Happy editing.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 6:30:32 am

Thanks, yeah I have most of the sound files relabeled as their proper take at this point which I've done manually at the folder level. I've done this many times before but never in X. I will definitely try that suggestion of doing the sync in X. The synced files are just basically compound clips though right? I just shut off the camera scratch audio and edit the synced compound clips in the timeline like normal.

-DM

2013 MacPro 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 64BG Ram
LG 31MU97 4K Display
2013 MacBookPro Retina


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Eric Santiago
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:34:46 pm

Spent a few days syncing 800+ R3Ds with 800+ WAV files using FCPX Sync option.
It was maybe 80% bang on.
The flow went straight into Resolve 11 (numerous fails here) then to Avid.
I am confident that in FCPX the audio was synced.
But I was told that it wasnt in Avid.
I could have checked but at this point, I was done with this one.
Next time, sync with TimeCode.
I learned a lot during that brutal workflow at least.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 2:22:45 pm

[Eric Santiago] "The flow went straight into Resolve 11 (numerous fails here) then to Avid.
I am confident that in FCPX the audio was synced.
But I was told that it wasnt in Avid."


I've had lots of trouble with every translation in and out of FCP X. Your experience sounds familiar. Audio issues often stem from sample rate.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Nicholas Kleczewski
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:39:19 pm

One thing I really like doing, is taking advantage of X's scrubbing power over clicking from clip to clip. So Ill put an entire scene, day, or whatever makes sense into a big multicam clip, then drop a few markers as quick jump to's. This also kinda helps in X as the sync'ing can't be done in the background. So you can set up something big and step away for a few (many) minutes, depending on how much you have to sync.

Unlike Plural Eyes, Ive found you get quicker results if you line up your video and audio to at least be somewhat "in the zone" It seems like FCP has an unseen window of heads and tails it tries to look for quickly to sync a clip, if its there, then great it syncs extremely quick. If its far away it seems to resort to some kind of mode where it then analyzes the entire track, or at least something is going on that can make it take way longer.

In general I like sticking with multicam clips to sync with, even if its not multicam. Theres some nice compound clip like advantages to be had if your ever working on a really complicated job and say, want color correction to instantly ripple to the 30 different projects the shot lies. Just add the effect once to the clip inside the multicam and viola, its rippled everywhere.

Director, Editor, Colorist
http://www.trsociety.com


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 18, 2014 at 6:04:30 am

I am about a third of the way through with my synch. All done in X. Workflow seems very intuitive and so far everything has been spot on including multi angle takes and stuff that was unable to sync in Plural Eyes 3.5.

-DM

2013 MacPro 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 64BG Ram
LG 31MU97 4K Display
2013 MacBookPro Retina


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 18, 2014 at 1:28:07 pm

Just remember that syncing by audio can often result in your audio being out of sync with picture. That's because many cameras record out of sync anywhere from a fraction of a frame to up to 2 frames out. Slate and TC will usually be more accurate. FCP legacy used to have a DVX100 plugin to offset camera audio because of this.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David McClellan
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 18, 2014 at 3:55:17 pm

Yeah it's in sync - so far no drift even on long takes and even if it's out of sync by a frame or two that is an easy fix. I have several shots that need to be flipped 180 - and that can't be done AFAIK in the browser. So for those I have to put the sync'd shots in a timeline - apply the 180 flip on the clip and then re-compound that clip. Other than that the sync is going well.

-DM

2013 MacPro 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 64BG Ram
LG 31MU97 4K Display
2013 MacBookPro Retina


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Oliver Peters
Re: Strategy for Syncing for Feature in X
on Nov 18, 2014 at 4:55:26 pm

[David McClellan] "flipped 180 - and that can't be done AFAIK in the browser."

Open the clip with "open in timeline", rotate 1080 in the transform controls in the inspector.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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