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Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?

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Peter Dunphy
Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 4, 2014 at 2:49:59 pm

Hi Guys

I'm not 'up to speed' whatsoever in shared storage whatsoever. However, our tech dept are planning to purchase a solution to facilitate the below:

2 editors using Final Cut Pro X at separate iMacs sitting facing each other in office at same time accessing same video project libraries.
Multicam editing (2 cams).
Pro Res 422
AVCHD
FCPX / Motion / Squeeze
No workflow has been agreed as of yet.

One of the companies who the tech dept is in discussion with have asked me "Do you need a sustained read or write speed for the final cut pro work, or does it just work at any speed ?"

My guess is that they are referring to the Transfer Rate, which could vary during an editing session? As per:

http://www.larryjordan.biz/technique-understanding-video-data-rates/

"Transfer Rate indicates how much data, on average per second, is required by that format. (The speed is measured in megabytes per second – MB/s.)
Keep in mind that a real-time dissolve doubles each of these transfer rates because during the dissolve two streams of video are playing. A four-camera multiclip increases each rate by four times because there are four streams of video playing."

Or is he referring to something different?

Warm regards


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Peter Dunphy
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 4, 2014 at 3:10:40 pm

Only for those who are interested and can spare the time here's the correspondence to date in this post between the potential seller and the Tech Dept. Is the Tech Dept on the right track do you think? Anything he should be considering?


TECH DEPT
I have the need for 2 Apple Compatible NAS Storage devices, specs below.

1) At least two Thunderbolt ports and one Ethernet Port.

2) At least 5 Hard Drive slots, with 40TB of Storage. If we have to buy the hard drives separate that’s fine.

3) Has to have RAID.

4) If they could mirror themselves or backup to each other (one is for offsite backup) that would be fine, but not critical. I could probably use either a Windows Server or Apple Server to act as a bridge.

Would you have anything that could fit the bill?

———
SELLER
We don't know of any combined NAS+TB storage - do you ?

Currently you would need to choose NAS OR TB.

The specs you ask for look more suited to a NAS setup - do you have any preference on NAS brand ?

———
TECH DEPT
As for combined NAS+TB storage, yes they do seem to exist but very rare and ones I have found so far aren't up to the job. For example Pegasus do one but they max out at 32TB.

So I was thinking of having a Thunderbolt NAS beside the two Macs, and then using Time Machine on one of the Macs to back up to an Ethernet NAS over in our main building. The Ethernet NAS could be a rack mounted model. Sorry this is all new to me, I'm primarily a Windows guy.

I don't care about what brand as long as it works. I would prefer non-seagate drives though as we've had bad experiences with them in the past.

I think a Drobo Business B800fs could do the offsite backup side of things, we have used a DroboFS in the past for small backups, can you recommend something with Thuderbolt for the Macs?
————

SELLER
We sell the full Promise Pegasus range, from 8TB to 32TB, and they are pure Thunderbolt2, with no other connections.
Those all come fully populated, but we do a number of empty TB2 enclosures The most popular is the Areca ARC-8050T2 which has a built-in RAID5/6
http://www.span.com/product/Areca-Thunderbolt2-RAID-Enclosure-ARC-8050T2-8-.....
we can build & test with 8x 5TB or 6TB drives, depending on what usable capacity you need.

The Drobo are a good product, but pretty low powered compared to others, such as Synology or Qnap which have a larger choice, and plenty of plugin & addon apps to choose from.
Qnap models are listed here : http://www.span.com/search/ibq-r8 Synology don't do an 8-bay but 12-bays start from : http://www.span.com/product/Synology-12-Bay-RackStation-NAS-RS2414-SATA-HD-.....

—————

TECH DEPT
Hmm, I must have been getting mixed up with SANLink2 with the Pegasus. I defiantly saw something out there that does both (although it wasn't suitable), I'm determined to find it now :)

Yes, if you could draw up some quotes that would be great. The primary use is for two people to do Final Cut Pro work at the same time if that helps.

I was thinking Drobo as it's Time Machine compatible, if any of the other two are that would be fine, or if there was any other way of backing up the Areca box using them that would be fine as well.

————

SELLER
Do you need a sustained read or write speed for the final cut pro work, or does it just work at any speed ?

I thought everything was time machine compatible now ?
Synology & Qnap certainly are -
https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowledgebase/tutorials/608
http://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/How_to_setup_your_QNAP_NAS_with_Apple_Time_Machin.....

Any thunderbolt drives would be treated as local storage on the mac, so wouldn't that just automatically work with TM ?

————

TECH DEPT
Yes you are correct in saying the Thunderbolt drives will work with TM, it's actually the NAS drive has to be compatible for writing to, back when I bought the Drobo a few years ago only Drobo really supported them, but if Synology & Qnap are now I'm happy enough.


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John Davidson
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 4, 2014 at 5:11:53 pm

What's your budget?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Noah Kadner
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 4, 2014 at 9:25:06 pm

DROBO/QNAP would never be my recommendation for use with FCPX. Areca and Promise is where it starts to get decent and from there on up.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Peter Dunphy
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 5, 2014 at 9:34:53 am
Last Edited By Peter Dunphy on Nov 5, 2014 at 1:33:09 pm

Thanks for your replies guys:

Should give you an idea of budget from the below two quotes received from the same supplier:


SELLER:
"The largest drives currently are 6TB, so in an 8-bay, you would get 48TB raw capacity, or 42TB in a RAID5.

The 8-bay Thunderbolt boxes would only be desktop - if you need larger, we do 16-bay and 24-bay rackmounted versions ?

We wouldn't recommend connecting thunderbolt storage to more than 1 Mac.
Even if they can both see the drives, the speed would suffer, and would probably corrupt the files.
Can you do it safely with USB or Firewire ?

There is a lot more flexibility with NAS boxes - desktop models are available in 8/10/12-bay, and rackmount from 4 to 24-bay.
The rackmount ones tend to be higher end, and more expensive.

100mbit ethernet is pretty ancient - if my maths is right, that would take over a day to copy 1TB of data !
Do you want us to quote for any 1gbit (or 10gbit) Ethernet switches ?

I have attached two options for TB & NAS - please let me know what you think"

TECH DEPT:
"I think the 8-Bay should be OK. I think I might have caused a misunderstanding about the 2 Mac's accessing the Thunderbolt RAID, while it's true both will want to access the RAID at once, it's not for rendering, it's for a backup/retrieval of video/stock files and the overheads therefore shouldn't be too high I would imagine.

There is a project undergoing to replace the old core switches with 1GB ones, this has already gone out to tender and I think HP/Cisco are doing it. I think at the start only a few TBs will be in the first time machine backup so there shouldn't be a big issue, probably run the first one on a Friday afternoon."

------------

Quote 1:

1 x Synology 12-Bay DiskStation NAS DS2413+ SATA HD, RAID 0/1/5/6 - £895.000

12 x Western Digital Red WD60EFRX SATA 6Gb/s 6TB 5400-7200 - £2,232.00

1 x 72TB raw, 66TB in RAID5, 60TB in RAID6

Quote 2:

1 x Areca Thunderbolt2 RAID Enclosure ARC-8050T2 8-Bay, SAS/SATA RAID 0/1/5/6; 2x TB2 - £945.00

8 x Western Digital Red WD60EFRX SATA 6Gb/s 6TB 5400-7200 - £1,488.00

1 x 48TB raw, 42TB in RAID5, 36TB in RAID6

-----------

Currently already have 1 Promise Pegasus 2 R6 12TB (Thunderbolt) and 2 iMacs, with just 1 iMac currently attached to the Pegasus.

The tech dept have asked me "I thought the new storage was mostly for backup up and retrieval of video files for reuse later, and your existing RAID would still do the heavy lifting of rendering/editing?"

So, looks like they're planning to incorporate the existing Pegasus into the solution. Although I could have sworn I read once that the Pegasus 2 R6 can't be used for multi-editors?? A-ha just found it

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/292/3115


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Noah Kadner
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 5, 2014 at 8:11:00 pm

So.... what's the question? And why aren't you asking the reseller directly as it's their sale to make.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Peter Dunphy
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 6, 2014 at 9:05:47 am

Thanks Noah, will do, I guess I'm just hoping that if you saw something in the quotes that was definitely an ill-advised purchase/brand for the purposes of multi-editor FCPX editing it would stick out like a sore thumb and you could shout "No not that!" :)


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Peter Dunphy
Re: Shared storage for 2 editors FCPX editing multicam shoots?
on Nov 7, 2014 at 9:35:21 am

Hi Noah

I guess my question is - -wouldn't it be safer for the organisation to purchase an 'all in one' solution like the http://www.studionetworksolutions.com/evo/solutions/?gclid=CKyu5NaW6MECFepf... Evo Shared Storage, rather than obtaining different parts from different brands?

I'm thinking in terms of if something goes wrong with an 'all in one' shared media storage you might have just one Point Of Contact in order to get it fixed.

The worry would be if there are different parts from different brands, if something goes wrong how many people would you have to contact to try and get it fixed?


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