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Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)

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Craig Seeman
Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 26, 2014 at 2:30:04 pm

FCPX 10.1.3
OSX 10.10
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera firmware 1.97.

Insert Card with ProRes LT Clips.
Open FCPX
Select Import.
Card is recognized and Selecting and importing Clips works without issue. WORKS
Select Card and click Archive button. Absolutely nothing happens. No response. DOES NOT WORK

Tested with second card from same camera and had the same result.

Used the Delete Preferences Function when starting FCPX.
Camera Archive DOES NOT WORK.

Create New User Admin account.
Camera Archive DOES NOT WORK.

The only recent change on my system is the upgrade to OS X 10.10.
I've used Feedback form to send to Apple although I'm never sure where these things are on their radar.

Curious if anyone else using BMPCC or any other BMD camera and shooting ProRes has seen the same issue.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 26, 2014 at 2:51:34 pm

Tested with a card with recordings from a Canon Vixia.
That works without issue on the same system
I can confirm this issue is specific to Blackmagic Pocket Camera (or Blackmagic Cameras).



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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 26, 2014 at 3:11:32 pm

Tested BMPCC ProRes LT card on
OS 10.9.5
FCPX 10.1.3

Camera Archive button functions.
This issues is specific to.

BMPCC Cards on Yosemite
(again no issue with card from Canon Vixia).



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 27, 2014 at 12:42:17 am

What does disk utility say is the format for the bmpcc card?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 27, 2014 at 12:55:30 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "What does disk utility say is the format for the bmpcc card?"

ExFat which is how it was formatted on the very same Mac using the very same Disk Utility under the very same OS 10.10 that morning before the shoot.

On another Mac with OS 10.9.5 FCPX 10.1.3 Archive function works (although with the issue I posted in July and confirmed by Blackmagic).

Another user on another forum reported the same issue. Shortly after reading their message I confirmed the same thing on my OS 10.10 system.

Just to be clear, I have no problem Importing files off the card. It's simply the Archive function that is vestigial.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 27, 2014 at 1:21:11 am

I wonder if other exfat cards won't work, either, or if it really is Bmpcc specific.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 27, 2014 at 1:52:02 am
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Oct 27, 2014 at 1:59:24 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I wonder if other exfat cards won't work, either, or if it really is Bmpcc specific."

You have another camera that accepts ExFat formatted cards? Perhaps suggest so someone can test.

Keep in mind the card work. It mounts. The clips can be imported. Only the Archive function doesn't work. Does nothing. No error message. No Beachball. It's as if the button was disconnected from any command. Something doesn't execute and there's no error message to indicate a fail.

BTW BMPCC also accepts HFS+ so it would be interesting to test that format.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 27, 2014 at 2:00:45 am

My own hunch, give a few things I've been reading, it might be how Yosemite handles cards with .mov files and no other metadata. Just speculative at this point.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 3:13:54 pm

From Blackmagic support:

Thank you for taking the time to contact support. I remember working with you on a similar FCPx camera archive issue a few months back. The issue has been escalated to product management. There is not much of a workaround at this time. I will be in touch if further developments surface.




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 4:48:20 pm

So you're saying there's a chance...

:)


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 5:01:38 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you're saying there's a chance..."

First reported in July on OS 10.9.x as corrupted archives. I'm not sure escalation equates with solution.
Odd thing is I'd think, given the popularity of BMPPC and FCPX, this would be widely reported... or maybe all BMPCC users are on PPro.

You'd think an SD card with Apple ProRes files would be the easiest of compatibility events with FCPX.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 5:04:10 pm

Honestly, I'm not sure it's the media, but more the disk format.

I haven't had a chance to recreate an exfat card, but my hunch would say it would fail.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 5:38:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I haven't had a chance to recreate an exfat card, but my hunch would say it would fail."

ExFat is Mac compatible and the cards were formatted using Apple Disk Utility on the very Mac the cards are plugged into. The Mac and FCPX have no problems reading the card. It's the FCPX Archive function that doesn't work. The button is active but it doesn't do anything. If I point to a folder with files in it on the other hand, it's greyed out. So the Archive seems to see it as something that can be acted on but does nothing.



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 5:16:02 pm

[Craig Seeman] "given the popularity of BMPPC and FCPX, this would be widely reported"

Given that I think the vast majority of X users either don't even know of the archiving feature, just don't use it or simply think copying things by other means is way better anyway, I'm not really that surprised that it hasn't. Assuming it's a legitimate bug. Unfortunately mine is out and about, so I can't test either. And I haven't made any (or tried) under Yosemite yet.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 5:51:39 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "I think the vast majority of X users either don't even know of the archiving feature"

That truly depresses me. A good and simple feature in FCPX so little valued by its user base. I've spent years in the COW XDCAM EX forum telling people to never drag and drop cards because you want the metadata intact... and Apple, much to their credit, built such feature in to FCPX.

Admittedly though, upon checking Apple's list of compatible cameras, Blackmagic isn't listed at all.
http://help.apple.com/finalcutpro/cameras/en/index.html?

Although on this page
http://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/resources/plugins.html#camera

Blackmagic Cinema Camera
Record directly to ProRes using the built-in SSD recorder, and use the touchscreen display to enter metadata that can be viewed and modified directly in Final Cut Pro X.

But I'd add, can't be Archived ;-)



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 6:07:14 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Oct 28, 2014 at 6:08:52 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Record directly to ProRes using the built-in SSD recorder"

To be fair... what's the sense or advantage of using the archive feature (which I love and use all the time also) on a disk like that i.e. native ProRes footage? The whole idea behind it, as you've stated, is to avoid losing important files and metadata. But that doesn't the least bit apply here... so why bother? Simply copying them via the Finder with no issues is a *feature*.

Maybe that's why FCP isn't doing it... it sees no point. :-D

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 6:31:13 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Oct 28, 2014 at 6:33:43 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "what's the sense or advantage of using the archive feature (which I love and use all the time also) on a disk like that i.e. native ProRes footage?"

One is that I don't have to leave the FCPX interface. Even if all it where doing is copying it shouldn't make it more difficult because the camera records ProRes. The other is a visual convenience in that that all my camera masters have an archive icon rather than a folder icon.

In the OS 10.9 variant of the issue, it created an archive complete with .plist. Either the .plist was a problem in the creation or FCPX wasn't reading it properly.

I should mention this function did work as expected for some time. It's possible that it worked in 10.0.9 but broke in 10.1. I had been Archiving for some time and suddenly all my past archives and newly created archives showed the same metadata for all the clips.

[Robin S. Kurz] "Maybe that's why FCP isn't doing it."

When FCPX sees a folder the Archive button isn't active. In this case it is. If it weren't supposed to work I'd think it would be greyed just as it is when pointed at a folder.



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 6:36:51 pm

Okay. I get the icon-on-the-sidebar thing, yes, since that's what (and why) I do (it) also. :)

[Craig Seeman] "I had been Archiving for some time and suddenly all my past archives and newly created archives showed the same metadata for all the clips."

Yes, that was the first and highly bizarre bug concerning the BMPCC only(?) for some weird reason. But I've reported it to Apple, so I know they know about it. I'd be very curious to know who's doing what wrong/different.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 7:10:47 pm

I believe I got the BMPCC about Oct 2013.
Mavericks 10.9 came out late October '13
FCP 10.1 came out in December '13

So it must have been working at least at 10.0.9 and 10.8.5 or maybe 10.9.0
I remember it working at least through around April '14
Mavericks 10.9.1 Dec '13
10.9.2 late Feb '14
10.9.3 May '14
10.9.4 late June '14
FCPX 10.1.1 was Jan '14
FCPX 10.1.2 was late June '14

I reported the issue on in July with 10.9.4, FCPX 10.1.2
I confirmed the issues was there with 10.9.3, FCPX 10.1.1

So it looks like maybe 10.9.2, FCPX 10.1 might have been OK but I'm not sure.
Otherwise it was last working 10.0.9 and either 10.9 or 10.9.1.

If someone out there has 10.0.9 on Mavericks it would be an interesting test.

[Robin S. Kurz] "Yes, that was the first and highly bizarre bug concerning the BMPCC only(?) for some weird reason."

The other variables would be .mov recordings but that would impact some Canon DSLR people although, unlike BMPCC, there's other metadata.

Someone pointed out on another forum that they used to remove the other metadata from Canon DSLR and Archive still worked but that stopped in Yosemite.

Another check might be someone using ProRes recorded on an Alexa and see if that can use the Archive function.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 8:10:54 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Oct 28, 2014 at 8:24:58 pm

I have SxS cards from a Sony F55 (exfat).

The Camera Archive button does not work. I also do not have the F55 software installed because I use the MXF files natively using the MXF4mac plugin, which is then using the MXF files as easily as ProRes.mov. So, the footage is seen as just a bunch of folders, instead of a "camera" set of folders. If I navigate to another set of folders, from a DSLR for example, and the card structure is recognized, I can make a camera archive from that subset of folders. The DSLR footage I tried isn't even on a card, but rather sitting on my SAN, as it would any other hard drive.

So it seems this isn't a disk format issue (exfat/etc) but rather if the import window recognizes a "camera" card structure, the archive button is then available. Obviously, the BMPCC camera card structure isn't recognized by X in Yosemite.

Jeremy


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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 10:38:03 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " if the import window recognizes a "camera" card structure, the archive button is then available."

Just to be clear, it is available. it performs no function though. If I point it to a folder it's not available (greyed out).



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Craig Seeman
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 28, 2014 at 10:52:31 pm

Card is recognized. Archive is available and shows engaged when clicked,





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 29, 2014 at 2:18:44 am

[Craig Seeman] "Card is recognized. Archive is available and shows engaged when clicked,"

I see. I can install the Sony Driver tomorrow and see if I can get the same results.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Camera Archive button does not function (Blackmagic camera source specific?)
on Oct 30, 2014 at 1:40:09 am

Sorry, Craig. Couldn't get the downtime today. Hopefully tomorrow!

Jeremy


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