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Audio Split Tracks in FCPX

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Christy Smith
Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 14, 2014 at 7:36:11 pm

I have been asked to export a video presentation with an audio split track. I have not done this before. Basically, the show team wants the dialogue on the right channel and the background music on the left, so they may adjust the volume based on the ambient noise in the room.

I have tried several techniques to achieve this effect, which works when I preview it from the timeline. However, when I export it, the video reverts to stereo. I have exported it as a multitrack QuickTime movie, selecting Dialogue and Music as mono exports. I have also tried changing the channel config to dual mono and deselecting different channels for both Dialogue and Music, respectively.

I know our team has previously accomplished this with FCP7, but I am more familiar with FCPX, so I'd prefer not to make the switch. Help!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 14, 2014 at 8:47:01 pm

Simply pan each channel left and right respectively, no??

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Christy Smith
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 14, 2014 at 8:59:05 pm

I have done this as well — still getting both tracks as stereo. I would expect in my playback to get music in one ear and dialogue in the other ear. Unfortunately, I'm getting both tracks in both ears.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 14, 2014 at 9:36:38 pm

How are you monitoring the material?

What you want is a dual mono output which could be setup through Roles and a multichannel export

After the video track, Music should be listed first in the audio layout (which will go to channel 1, which may or may not be "left") and everything else listed second (which will go to channel 2, which may or may not be "right").


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:47:10 pm

Well, I have no idea how you're doing it, but if I simply place random clips in the timeline and set their pan mode to Stereo Left/Right and set them each to either side, then no matter how I export it (Apple Device, Master etc.) they come out exactly that way. No roles or other special export settings. Just exactly the way one (at least me) would expect it to work.

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 2:43:10 pm

If you need a 2 channel export, there's no need to pan. You can export a stereo mix and a dual mono mix from the same timeline, without a lot of fuss, and without touching every single clip on your timeline.

There are good reasons to do this, including, getting multiple outputs from one timeline without adjustment.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 3:13:17 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You can export a stereo mix and a dual mono mix from the same timeline"

How and what does that pan to one or the other side?

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 4:39:57 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "How and what does that pan to one or the other side?"

If you read the original post, she needs a dual mono export, not a stereo export. There is no Left/Right pan in dual mono, only channels.

You assign a Role to Music, and make sure that the Music Role only contains Music. Everything else should be fine as default.

In the multichannel export window, you assign the first audio channel to the Music Role.

In the second channel, you assign every Role BUT Music.

This means all music goes to channel 1, everything else to channel 2, which is what is required for the delivery.

There's no reason to pan anything, before or after, as you are bussing the signal out to specific audio channels.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 5:08:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This means all music goes to channel 1, everything else to channel 2, which is what is required for the delivery.
There's no reason to pan anything, before or after, as you are bussing the signal out to specific audio channels."


Yes, I know what you're describing. That gives me two separate but centered channels. She states

[Christy Smith] "the show team wants the dialogue on the right channel and the background music on the left"

and

"would expect in my playback to get music in one ear and dialogue in the other ear"

She won't be getting that with what you describe, unless I'm completely missing something. I don't see how you can do a left/right separation without panning each first, sorry. And if you pan, why separate? Since how else are you going to distinguish between the two channels during playback with things just on separate tracks but all playing centered at the same time?

A role-based panner would be brilliant just about now. :)

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 5:45:27 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Yes, I know what you're describing. That gives me two separate but centered channels. She states"

Robin-

In your situation, you have to touch every single piece of audio and pan it correctly. In my proposal, you simply bus the audio to the proper channel.

There's no such thing as one channel centered channel. There's only a mono channel, there's no pan. If you need your stereo music track on one channel (call it "left" or "Channel 1" whatever you want, the label is arbitrary) that is a mono channel. There is no pan in mono. Sorry to keep repeating myself. It is six of one half down of the other, it's just that may method is a lot less work and less prone to error.

[Robin S. Kurz] "She won't be getting that with what you describe, unless I'm completely missing something. I don't see how you can do a left/right separation without panning each first, sorry. And if you pan, why separate? Since how else are you going to distinguish between the two channels during playback with things just on separate tracks but all playing centered at the same time?"

They may be panned left or right, but they are discrete channels, which is really what the delivery requires. Channel 1 will go to channel 1 output, channel 2 will go to channel 2 output. If channel 1 is routed to a speaker that happens to be sitting on your right side (but it is "panned left" in the NLE) then left and right don't mean anything. If the receiving system spreads channel 1 across 6 channels, it doesn't make it a 5.1 mix.

She needs two discrete channels, and Roles is a really easy way to bus the audio out, and there's no reason to pan anything as the pan is rather arbitrary.

Jeremy


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 6:47:38 pm

Aside from not knowing what the odd undertone is all about, I never actually said that mono can or should be panned, sorry. All I know is, that what you describe doesn't work here upon export and simple playback with any given player, and I'm very aware of what I'm doing, yes. I still don't know how you are bussing the channels from e.g. the QT player (or whatever it is they plan on using) to separate channels for individual mixing as she describes she needs.

And if you have everything assigned to roles as needed, how are you needing "to touch every single piece of audio"? Filter by role in the Index, select all, set pan. And even if they aren't assigned, there's always "Paste Attributes".

Whatever. Guess we'll just have to let her give it a shot and let us know how it worked out. I'm certainly very curious.

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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 6:55:02 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Oct 15, 2014 at 6:56:37 pm

Oh, and individual mono clips/channels can in fact be panned btw. It'd be very odd if you couldn't.

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 7:19:09 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Oh, and individual mono clips/channels can in fact be panned btw. It'd be very odd if you couldn't."

Panning is simply routing them to a channel.

Here's a file: 8104_2channel.mov.zip

Here's the output settings:



What do you hear?

Jeremy


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Christy Smith
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 15, 2014 at 8:59:26 pm

Thank you both for your insights! The first way I tried was through roles and exporting as mono and multichannel. But I still was getting both dialog and music in stereo (my settings were the same as indicated in the above image).

When I tried the panning technique, it failed as well. However, after trying again this afternoon with a new project, the panning worked! I had dialog in one ear, music in the other. I think the first audio clips I was using must have become corrupted with all my tinkering.

At this point, I'm just glad I have a way to export this without the show company having an aneurism.

Thanks again for your input!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 16, 2014 at 7:29:03 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "What do you hear?"

Left and right separated. Only I have no idea why those settings would do that, since the exact same settings here do nothing other than play both centered, just as I said and had already tested. And it obviously isn't working for her that way either. I even just did it again to be sure. Go figure.

Your file shows a single audio track with two channels, each with left/right assignments. No idea how you're getting that. Mine comes out (as I would expect) with two separate tracks, each with a simple "Mono" assignment. Apparently the same thing she is getting also.

So, I guess for some bizarre reason we were both right.

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Tim Moyle
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 6:03:24 pm

Trying to figure this out myself right now. I have two audio roles in my timeline, "Dialogue" and "Music".

I am exporting as Master File and selecting "Multitrack QuickTime Movie" for the "Roles as:" option. I assign each role as "Mono". Exporting the file does not separate each role, they're center-panned or not-separated or whatever the right term for "both roles play out of both ears in my headphones"

In my timeline properties, under "Audio Channels" I have the options "Surround" and "Stereo". I have tried both but I get the same result every time.

So:

1) Should I be using a different export setting? (I created a ProRes 422 Dual Mono setting in Compressor and imported it into FCPX, but I didn't gte the "Roles as:" option when I went to export)

2) How should I configure "Audio Channels" in the timeline properties?

3) Is there anything else I could be missing?

Thanks!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 7:46:26 pm

[Tim Moyle] "I am exporting as Master File and selecting "Multitrack QuickTime Movie" for the "Roles as:" option. I assign each role as "Mono". Exporting the file does not separate each role, they're center-panned or not-separated or whatever the right term for "both roles play out of both ears in my headphones""


If you provide a dual mono (discreet channel) file, they will simply turn off what they don't need.
The easiest way to check the file is to simply reimport it to FCPX and have a look.

Jeremy


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Tim Moyle
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 8:12:54 pm

Sorry, I should have been clear. I need to provide a file with the dialogue coming out of one speaker and music coming out of another speaker. I'm afraid the person I'm making this for doesn't have the technical know-how to turn off what they don't need (he's literally going to unplug a speaker to mute the music).


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 8:14:48 pm

First, dupe your timeline and do this on a copy.

Than pan all dialog left, pan all music right, and export a stereo file.


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Tim Moyle
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 8:16:05 pm

I guess that's my only option. Thanks for your help!


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Tim Moyle
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 8:14:23 pm

I also can't figure out how to export a dual mono file. The file defaults to whatever setting I specify in the timeline settings and my only options there are "Stereo" and "Surround", neither of which seem to accomplish what I'm looking for.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 23, 2014 at 8:16:19 pm

[Tim Moyle] "I also can't figure out how to export a dual mono file."

You have to set each Role as a mono output.

The screen grab is here:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/344/33790

Jeremy


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 9:55:12 am

[Tim Moyle] "neither of which seem to accomplish what I'm looking for."

Yes, as was pointed out before. No one seems to be able to get this to work as described. Certainly not without panning first and if you in fact simply pan each audio file to the left and right, you don't even need to use roles upon export.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 1:11:51 pm

We will continue to disagree about this, Robin. As mentioned both methods are fine, no one is right or wrong here.

What I need when someone sends me discreet channels, is usually a dual mono file (or multitrack stereos/stems). There is no reason to have s file that has voice in one ear, music in another. That file would be brought in and either the music or dialog turned off and replaced (and subsequent panned "center"). This is what I keep trying to reiterate, that either of these methods is six of one, half dozen of the other. The result is a two channel file with discrete elements on each channel. A dual mono file needs to turn one of the channels off, a panned file would require turning one channel off and re-routing the signal to all speakers as no one is going to have the dialog play out of "left" only.

I find using Roles is much less "destructive", and achieves what is necessary. This assumes a small modicum of know how on the receiving end because they will have to adjust something when receiving either file, including but not limited to physically removing a speaker, ;).


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 3:50:19 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "We will continue to disagree about this"

This had nothing to do with "disagreeing", Jeremy. As I've already explained extensively, I just plain have no idea how you are doing it from FCP, since what you describe clearly does not result in what you are talking about, for anyone trying it. Aside from you apparently. That's all.

Or you're simply explaining it poorly. I don't know.

- RK

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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 4:59:54 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "This had nothing to do with "disagreeing", Jeremy. As I've already explained extensively, I just plain have no idea how you are doing it from FCP, since what you describe clearly does not result in what you are talking about, for anyone trying it. Aside from you apparently. That's all. "

I have no problem getting a dual mono export out of FCPX using Roles. It's very easy, the controls are posted in this thread.

I can reimport the file, turn off either dialog or music, or mix each component separately.

It is very basic functions of Roles in FCPX.

I know I am not the only one capable of doing things like this.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 5:06:25 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I know I am not the only one capable of doing things like this."

Including me, there are three people in this thread alone that aren't able to get it to happen via the way you describe. Just saying'. And I consider myself anything but a noobie FCP user.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 24, 2014 at 5:46:56 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Including me, there are three people in this thread alone that aren't able to get it to happen via the way you describe. Just saying'. And I consider myself anything but a noobie FCP user.
"


Weird.


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Tom Brooks
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 29, 2014 at 7:56:48 pm

I needed a multi-channel master today (to send some clips to another editor) and checked in on this thread to get a quick lowdown on it (the quick part didn't work out so well). I chose Jeremy's Roles output and it worked just great. Basically, I had clips with either lav mic and boom mic or a normal level and a lower level recorded--all mono channels.

All normal level and lav mic went to the Dialogue role. For clips with a boom mic channel, that channel went to the Boom Mic role. Clips with a lower level channel for safety went to Lower Level Audio role. I exported a master with Roles as Multi-channel Quicktime file--all roles set to mono.

Brought the resulting QT into FCX, just as an editor would do, and it has 3 discreet mono channels. These mono channels can now be mixed and panned as desired in the timeline. Just what I needed.

Of course, it's only upon doing this panning that the audio is separated to Left and Right. It's all centered until that point, as would be expected. I think this output format is much better for an editor to receive than a stereo track with various clips panned in different ways. The channels were discreet mono channels in the camera and needed to be delivered that way to the editor. Roles are a great way to do it.


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Tom Brooks
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Oct 29, 2014 at 8:45:09 pm

[Tom Brooks] "All normal level and lav mic went to the Dialogue role. For clips with a boom mic channel, that channel went to the Boom Mic role. Clips with a lower level channel for safety went to Lower Level Audio role. I exported a master with Roles as Multi-channel Quicktime file--all roles set to mono."

I didn't phrase that quite right. For example, if a clip had lav mic and boom mic channels, I let the lav mic channel go to the Dialogue Role and the boom mic channel went to the Boom Mic Role. This can be done by expanding the audio components for the clip and using the Assign Roles command. So, a single clip can have its multiple mono audio channels assigned to multiple Roles and therefore that audio will go to discreet channels in the exported QT file.



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Girshon Rutstein
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 2:36:24 am

I have an audio stereo file guitar in L track and violin on R track.
How do I split these 2 tracks and still make it sound stereo to adjust some volume independently. I was be able to do it in FCP7 easily.
Here splitting into 2 mono the song becomes Mono.

Thanks.

Girshon R


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 1:03:47 pm

[Girshon Rutstein] "How do I split these 2 tracks and still make it sound stereo to adjust some volume independently."

Use the panning after the split? The exact same way you'd have to do it in 7 also.

- RK

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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Girshon Rutstein
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 2:46:33 pm

Thanks!

Girshon R


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Girshon Rutstein
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:18:09 pm

"Use the panning after the split? The exact same way you'd have to do it in 7 also."

BTW in FCP 7 I did not do the panning, all I did I unchecked the stereo pair and that separated my Left and Right channel, where I could control the volume separately.

Girshon R


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:38:49 pm

You have to open the audio components after changing the clip to dual mono which will give you separate volume controls for each channel.

I forget the default key command for expand audio components (I have it mapped to shift-e, which may or may not be the default), but you can find it by selecting Clip > Expand Audio Components.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sounding stereo" but you can adjust pan modes in the inspector.


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Girshon Rutstein
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:42:40 pm

You are correct, panning left and right is the way to make the track still sound stereo.

The FCPX is not as intuitive application as earlier versions. I don't think people can learn how to use it without going through some tutorials.

Girshon R


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:48:09 pm

[Girshon Rutstein] "I don't think people can learn how to use it without going through some tutorials."

I have yet to see any software, let alone an NLE, that doesn't actually require any type of learning. No idea how that's FCP X specific. Unless of course you can do what you're doing in any and every other NLE out there without having to ask? Avid? Edius? Vegas? Premiere? I'm guessing: no.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Girshon Rutstein
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:54:16 pm

You could be correct, it just seem to me that FCPX interface looks easy, but its not.
I meant to say that the platform is completely different from other nLE.

For example I started with Adobe Premiere, and for me to switch to FCP 5-6-7 was an easy task. I knew how to use it in a few days. And so iMovie, Vegas, etc.

But started liking it a lot. In fact I even purchased a full curse of FCPX by Larry Jordan

Thanks guys for your support.

Girshon R


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Audio Split Tracks in FCPX
on Feb 7, 2016 at 3:53:49 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Feb 7, 2016 at 4:14:09 pm

Fcpx does operate differently than other NLEs.

There are a multitude of good training resources out there. After a few relatively short lessons, you'll be up and runnin as once you learn the mechanics, the techniques and ideas are similar.


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