FORUMS: list search recent posts

Settings - footage dv cam

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Morten Slemdal
Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 8, 2014 at 8:52:30 pm

I've some footage in dv tapes - shot in 720X576.
I did some tests, and it seems like the mastertape with
Dv setting was best for export. Is that right? When I tried proress 422 the video had terrible "stripes" when camera was moving.

However I tried some slow motion and that was kind of blury on all options. How do I get best result on slow motion?


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 8, 2014 at 9:30:04 pm

If your project timecode is set to an interlaced setting (i), try changing it to progressive (p)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 6:12:27 am

Ok, I`ll check when I`m back at my mac.

Does it make sense that the DV setting is fine, while the proress has nasty blurry horizontal lines?

I thought fcpx understood if I should have (i) or (p), from the first Clip added to the timeline.

anyway, I hope this is the case, and that everything will be great in the end.


Return to posts index


Charlie Austin
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 6:29:56 am

[Morten Slemdal] "I thought fcpx understood if I should have (i) or (p), from the first Clip added to the timeline.

anyway, I hope this is the case, and that everything will be great in the end."


It does, but DV is interlaced and I've found that changing the project timebase to progressive (if it's available) can help with this issue. Worth a shot. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 9:47:59 am

[Charlie Austin] "DV is interlaced and I've found that changing the project timebase to progressive (if it's available) can help with this issue."

Sorry, but that is clearly NOT something you want to be doing (and has nothing to do with your timebase). With that you are not solving anything, you're only making things worse if anything. Since by doing that you are telling FCP to effectively misinterpret your footage and toss out one of the fields, which obviously is not of any benefit in terms of quality. Those "blurry lines" are simply the visible fields of the interlace, which is absolutely normal, since DV footage is always interlaced. I just have to wonder why you're even seeing them though, since by default FCP does not show both fields in the viewer. So you must have changed it. You can turn that off by simply going into the viewer display menu and unchecking that option, if it bothers you so much.



There's also no need to transcode, since FCP can edit DV natively which is fine quality-wise and of course MUCH smaller in size, too.

Once you export the clip(s) the fields will either be maintained (which they SHOULD be for e.g. DVD output!) or tossed if you export in any given progressive format such as Apple Devices, YouTube etc.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 10:09:21 am

Ok - I really don't care about the preview. My problem is when exporting/sharing. I tried to make a master, with prores 422, and that came out crappy. I redid it with DV, and that came out fine. So, in a way I'm happy. Does this make sense, that prores is flickery, dv is not?

When it comes to the blurry slow mo, I guess I have to fi it under retiming


Return to posts index


Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 10:51:37 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Oct 9, 2014 at 10:51:59 am

[Morten Slemdal] "I tried to make a master, with prores 422, and that came out crappy. I redid it with DV, and that came out fine."

Technically they're both the exact same. So the question is what are you using to look at your exports? If e.g. with the QT 7 Player, DV is also shown with just one field and a "low quality" setting on playback, but in fact has both. A setting in the respective clip properties. ProRes will always show both fields if it has them, but it certainly won't in fact look worse, assuming you turned on both fields in the DV clip also.

The only relevant question is where will the clip end up?? If going back to DV or DVD or any other source for playback ON A TV, then having fields is A GOOD THING. If going to e.g. Youtube or just your computer, simply export as PROGRESSIVE in any given codec and it will look that same in each and every one. Since yes, interlaced material will look "crappy" on a progressive monitor.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 3:50:34 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Oct 9, 2014 at 3:51:03 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "The only relevant question is where will the clip end up?? If going back to DV or DVD or any other source for playback ON A TV, then having fields is A GOOD THING. If going to e.g. Youtube or just your computer, simply export as PROGRESSIVE in any given codec and it will look that same in each and every one. Since yes, interlaced material will look "crappy" on a progressive monitor."

Which was why I suggested he change the project setting, even if I got the terminology wrong. ;-) I guess I just assume that these days everything will be viewed on computer screen... Also, in my case, we get DV footage occasionally, but it's for offline and will eventually be redone from the HD master. So I always run a progressive project to get rid of the interlacing for presentations etc. I suppose I shouldn't assume that this is always the case...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 6:02:07 pm

Life is short, and I'm stuck in this. Ok, I'm slowly getting there. I guess the 25p is good enough. Is the best to share to dvd?

Ok, one more question: maybe I should start new thread:
I have a digital camera with footage shot in avchd, 50i. When I drop it on a project in fcpx, the project is 50p, Should I be happy ( I'm going to screen it the same way as I've mentioned)or should I change to 50i.

Should I transcode? Uggggh - confused!


Return to posts index


Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 10:24:58 am

[Charlie Austin] "So I always run a progressive project to get rid of the interlacing for presentations etc."

Which, again, is a completely superfluous step IMHO, since your export will ultimately decide whether the final product is progressive or not. Only that way you're eliminating any possibility of exporting an interlaced version, whether you need it or not. But it's smarter to leave your options open. Aside from it not offering any type of advantage anyway. Why would you want to have to render everything all the time if you plain don't need it? Put it in the correct project and you're only rendering what's necessary, therefore saving time and resources.

[Morten Slemdal] "Should I use another player on my mac for better tv result? "

YES. Simply using a DVD or BD or even better an Apple TV would most certainly be far less inconvenient and easier to implement. It's probably not even sending an interlaced image to the TV, which would obviously explain the "crappiness", too. Way to much work for such a simple task imho.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 10:34:37 am

Great - I could do the dvd, without actually burning it to disc I guess. Just load it from file/open? Then I can keep the project as interlaced.

That said - I think my 25p project is just fine for now.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 10:50:19 am

[Morten Slemdal] "I think my 25p project is just fine for now."

Again... you do not want to be working in a 25p project, but in a 25i project! Working with 25p will only further diminish the quality of the footage, especially when it comes to motion. Technically, there is in fact no such thing as 50i, since there is no such thing as 50 interlaced frames, they're 25 interlaced frames. Which is why Apple (correctly) calls it 25i where others say 50i. The whole 50i (imho) nonsense is just some confusing marketing speak of various camera OEMs along the lines of "They go to 11!" to make things sound better. Or maybe they think it makes more sense to people unfamiliar with what interlace even is? Since in SD (which your DV obviously is) there was and is no such thing as "p". Everything is and was always interlaced.

And how do you figure that playing it from a FILE is going to change anything? That would be the exact same thing as you're doing now, just a different codec. ProRes preserves the fields just as well and you hate it. You want to play it from an ACTUAL DVD player or get an Apple TV and forget about the superfluous cable.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index


Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 11:08:56 am

Ok - why is mirroring through apple tv better than hdmi cable? I will still play it from QT, or do you mean another player?

With my other camera I shoot in 50i, (ok 25i) and fcpx interpret it as 25p (first clip on tl) The codec is avchd. Does this make sense at all, in your opinion?


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 11:14:23 am

[Morten Slemdal] "fcpx interpret it as 25p"

What does the info window say it is? Could it be you THINK you're shooting 25i but actually shooting 50p? Because I for one have yet to see FCP misinterpret footage of that kind. But I guess anything is possible.

Putting the clip in a 25i timeline, turning on both fields in the viewer and then looking at a frame with a lot of motion in it would quickly clarify if it's in fact interlaced or not, since it would be clearly visible.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 11:49:00 am

Jupp - my footage is def 50i, and I was suprised that my project settings said 25p. So, after what you said earlier on - project settings should be changed to 25i, especially if I'm going for the dvd alternative.


Return to posts index


Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 12:38:57 pm

Yes, if the footage is in fact interlaced, then you want to be editing it in an interlaced (25i) project.

It's very odd that it's being misinterpreted. And this is material that came directly from the camera/card? I.e. wasn't captured or converted outside of FCP? Any chance you could upload a short example somewhere to look at? I'm curious...

And just to sum things up...
Destination TV = interlaced. So shooting, editing and mastering interlaced will make for much better quality, in particular with motion.
Destination everywhere else = progressive. So if your project in fact doesn't run the risk of being shown on a regular TV, then it really doesn't matter if you're editing i or p. Only at the very latest upon export/mastering it should be progressive.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 13, 2014 at 1:21:59 pm

I did some investigation this weekend, and now my Project is set to interlaced after dropping my 50i media on the timeline; so that make sense.

Thanx for good help.


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 10, 2014 at 11:57:28 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "Technically, there is in fact no such thing as 50i, since there is no such thing as 50 interlaced frames, they're 25 interlaced frames. Which is why Apple (correctly) calls it 25i where others say 50i. The whole 50i (imho) nonsense is just some confusing marketing speak of various camera OEMs along the lines of "They go to 11!" to make things sound better. Or maybe they think it makes more sense to people unfamiliar with what interlace even is?"

Going off topic...

I think the "number-letter" designation comes from engineering, and it makes a lot of sense if you look at it a little differently.

Instead of interpreting the number as the frame rate, think of it as the base refresh rate. So 50i isn't meant to be read as "50 interlaced frames" but rather "50 refreshes per second, and those refreshes are interlaced fields" versus 25p as "25 refreshes per second, which are progressive frames."

This makes less sense in the context of editorial where you care about whole frames, but it makes it quite clear for engineers how often a device or protocol must refresh or sample. Sampling 25 times per second is insufficient for a "25i" signal.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index


Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 11:39:47 am

Oh, gosh. I'm trying to get a grip... My main output will be tv. When I tested this I did it in QT. So for best performance on tv, directly from my mac, what is that?

So, if I understand you right; when I share to dv, it will be one field only, if I don't change to two fields. That's why this option is ok on my tv. When sharing to prores I always get 2 fields, and that will be flickery on my tv.

Thanx for helping me out; I hope you can guide me so I can get a good quality film on my tv from my mac. What player should I use, and what settings?


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 11:48:28 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Oct 9, 2014 at 11:49:34 am

[Morten Slemdal] "My main output will be tv."

Via WHAT exactly?

[Morten Slemdal] "when I share to dv, it will be one field only"

No. If you are viewing it with the QT Player it is only DISPLAYING one field unless you change it. That's simply a legacy, codec specific "feature" from waaaaay back when computers even had a hard time playing back DV (and to keep people from complaining about supposed crappy quality because of the fields).

[Morten Slemdal] "guide me so I can get a good quality film on my tv from my mac."

Again... that's complete dependent on HOW you are getting it on your TV. Apple TV? DVD? Bluray? USB stick? What? But again... both a DV as well as a ProRes export will generally be just fine for further processing.


____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Check out my german language FCP X training!


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 9, 2014 at 12:09:46 pm

I will just plug my mac to the tv, via hdmi. Probably I miss the point here.. Sorry about that. My prores alternative is as said crappy on my tv - I need to know how I can fix this. Is it because I play it from QT via hdmi to my tv? Should I use another player on my mac for better tv result? Should I do something with my project settings?


Return to posts index


Mike Fitzsimmons
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 13, 2014 at 1:56:32 pm

I run into this all the time when cutting SD footage into HD time lines (not sure if that's what you're doing).

I'm not sure if your workflow/delivery needs are the same as mine, but my workaround has been:

1) Project should be set to interlaced (for broadcast or DVD)

2) Footage (the clips themselves) that are giving you the issue should have their field dominance changed to LOWER.

I've been able to mix just about any SD footage by switching from UPPER to LOWER. Footage looks great and no more striping.

Hope that helps...


Return to posts index

Morten Slemdal
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 13, 2014 at 2:23:54 pm

Jupp, this is the case for me as well. Do you set all clipsto lower, as a default. Or just the "troubled" clips? I've just tried it as progressive to QT and mirrored it from mac to tv. That's ok, with noe really messy pix - but maybe I should try this (-: eventuelle I guess I will burn it to dvd.


Return to posts index

Mike Fitzsimmons
Re: Settings - footage dv cam
on Oct 13, 2014 at 2:28:01 pm

Anytime this has happened for me, the "troubled" clips show up with UPPER field dominance. When I change them to LOWER, problem goes away.

You may need to add the "Field Dominance Override" setting in the "Info" view for the metadata. Can't remember if it's there by default.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]