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Auditions and Compound Clips

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James Ewart
Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 2:35:52 pm

There is a lot to learn isn't there?

I kind of see the point of creating Auditions in the Browser but "Open in timeline" doesn't seem to do much ... oh ... hang on a minute it means you can trim the individual selections depending on which one is selected. That's clever.

But tell me why you would want to create a Compound Clip in the Browser in the first instance please? I just cannot figure it.

Have a nice weekend everyone.

James

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 3:01:22 pm

If you knew your final project was going to consist of a multitude of large pieces, you could create compounds and edit in those and then place them in the final project.

Just as easily though you could work in a project and convert it to a compound and do the same thing.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 3:30:02 pm

Think "narrative" where you have endless takes of the same thing and you want to see all your options in context. Whether you do it in the Event or in the Project is irrelevant functionality-wise, only in the event it's faster/easier. And you have it there for using it elsewhere also, which you wouldn't if you made it in the timeline.


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:07:46 pm
Last Edited By James Ewart on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:09:07 pm

"Think "narrative" where you have endless takes of the same thing and you want to see all your options in context"

Thanks yes Robin I get that for Auditions but I think Multicam is a better option (for me) for this. In fact for any single camera drama piece I think I would now edit in Multicam mode. I do think Multicam is one of the great strengths of FCPX which one has to use to fully appreciate. It's a treat in store for the uninitiated.

But Bret I still don't really get making Compounds in the Browser unless it's for clips with separate audio that has to be synched?


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:32:15 pm

I don't use it either, but hey it's just an option. I probably would be creating a compound from clips, but I might create an empty compound and use it like a sequence. Just open it up and start editing. Because a compound has more versatility than a regular project. It can be "nested" within another compound or a project. Projects are like the end of the road. Can't nest a project within a project. So if you know the sequence you're working on is going to get nested into a bigger whole, you might as well edit in a compound. Get it?

But most people don't think that way. Self included. If I realized I needed to break down my big project into parts, I'd probably just highlight a chunk of a project and create a compound from that.

It is nice that if you edit in a compound, you can scrub it in the browser. Why can't we scrub projects in the browser? I guess they don't want us being confused and thinking we can use a project as an edit source. But... why can't we use a project as an edit source? C'mon Apple, this stuff is NLE 101.


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:42:17 pm

Hand on I'll try that ... create an empty compound clip in the Browser and use it as a sub project?

... is that what they are thinking?

But you can compound a project (say scene 1) and then use that as a sub section of a bigger picture?

But maybe option A is more organised? Create 20 or more blank/empty CCs and then name them scene 1,2,3,4 etc.

Then create a master project (The Hollywood Blockbuster) and drop them all in to that.

Also perhaps a good way for different people to work on different bits of a project?

But why is that an advantage over a bunch of projects I wonder?

There must be a reason.


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 5:43:46 pm

[James Ewart] "But why is that an advantage over a bunch of projects I wonder?

There must be a reason."


Can't put a project in a project is all. I've actually somehow worked for days on a compound clip and didn't realize I wasn't working in a project. Functionally makes no difference.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 5:38:54 pm

[Bret Williams] "but I might create an empty compound and use it like a sequence"

Certainly nothing I would ever recommend doing. If you e.g. did that before some of the last major updates then you would have really messed a bunch of things up for yourself (as some did), seeing how drastically both compounds and projects have changed. And you never know what's next, so using features in different ways than they were intended i.e. are expected to be used could mess things up even more.

The project is also a different file from the event in the library. So doing it that way, if you e.g. lose the one to corruption, you lose BOTH. Compounds also do not have the same metadata options and fields as a project, you lose an additional filtering criteria etc. etc.. So you're in fact limiting yourself on various levels. I see no advantage or real sense.

Aside from not understanding why you couldn't simply compound what it is you want from within a project when and if needed? How is that different or worse? That's how I string together scenes etc. all the time. No risk and fully functional.


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 5:49:32 pm

And I wouldn't use a compound as a project either (except for the accident I mentioned in reply to James). That was my point. You might create an empty compound to edit in to use in a bigger project. And as you mentioned, the outcome is the same.

As for updates screwing up compounds, well that's going to be a problem no matter how you use them. Projects used to stand alone. But now that they're embedded in a library they feel more vulnerable, kinda like compounds were. I was worried about that when 10.1 came out, but simultaneously they came out with auto final cut backups, so I'm not too worried.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 5:53:26 pm

[Bret Williams] "And I wouldn't use a compound as a project either"

Aha. Sounded to me like you were singing the praises of the idea. My bad then I guess.


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:08:57 pm

Using compounds as your MAIN sequence certainly wouldn't show up in the "Final Cut Library Manager" app either. Love that app.


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:21:49 pm

Which still begs the question what is the thinking of the software designers behind creating empty CCs in the browser and creating CCs in the Browser?


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Bill Davis
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:51:13 pm

The singular feature of Compound Clips is that they bundle assets together AND they reflect the new compound back upstream into the Event Browser.

It's the perfect container for RE-USABLE elements such as title sequences and design items that you'll want to change globally across multiple projects.

Combined with the Reference New Parent Clip capability, it allows you to either maintain or interrupt metadata flow (primarily text changes) into the compounds across projects or inside individual projects.

Does that help?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 7:04:06 pm

Why? It's an option. I'm guessing you don't do a lot of AE work, where you're composing complicated effects. If you know a stack of 8 layers is going to be cc'd, why not build it as a clean slate instead of in the timeline where your other 10 layers are just getting in the way and bogging things down? You'll certainly get more rt working in the cc vs the full project.

But I'm just thinking these things up as I go along. It certainly shouldn't boggle anyone's mind why it's a nice option to have. Use it if you want or need it. Don't if you don't. I for one can't stand auditions and rarely use them. I prefer to see my choices laid out in the timeline and I just turn clips on/off. I certainly can't see why anyone would want to create them in the browser. But I accept the fact that they're useful to someone's workflow.

Check out auditions in resolve. They open up like a stack. A little sequence in the sequence. That app has all the right things going for it when they eventually marry it with some generators/transitions/effects and an effects app.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 26, 2014 at 7:45:49 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Sep 26, 2014 at 7:47:04 pm

[Bret Williams] "I for one can't stand auditions and rarely use them. I prefer to see my choices laid out in the timeline and I just turn clips on/off."

I'm guessing you don't do a lot (or any) narrative work? Where you have-as I described-endless takes of the same thing where you're looking for the right nuance in context. Using the REPLACE feature instead is what would be absolutely mind bogglingly tedious.

But yes, they're both great options to have, when and if you need them. Which is why I'll go out a limb and say is why they're even there. ;)

[Bret Williams] "Check out auditions in resolve."

It's actually called "Take Selector" and I don't see how it's any better than in FCP. Have you actually *used* it? And something tells me they didn't exactly come up with that all on their own, so I guess they must actually be useful after all. :D (actually I think the only exist in Resolve to heighten its compatibility with FCP X)


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 29, 2014 at 5:05:11 am

I don't use auditions a lot but the one place I find them useful is for trying alternate color grades of video effects. Take a scene and make a compound clip of it. Duplicate it to an audition and do some grading. Now duplicate it again but using to duplicate the original. Now you have a clean slate to do an alternate grade. Rinse and repeat.

Yes you could do it by stacking all those versions on top of each other but why do that when auditions are there to keep everything clean and tidy?

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 27, 2014 at 4:46:31 am

"it certainly shouldn't boggle anyone's mind why it's a nice option to have."

Yes sometimes I do get a bit boggled/curious really though. Wonder if I'm missing out on something because I always build CCs in a project/timeline.


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Andy Neil
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 27, 2014 at 5:29:11 pm

[James Ewart] "Yes sometimes I do get a bit boggled/curious really though. Wonder if I'm missing out on something because I always build CCs in a project/timeline."

It's fine to do that and if that's all you need compounds for, then great. The additional functionality might not ever be necessary for you. Personally, I rarely use compounds, but I'll give you a couple reasons why you might like to have them in the browser as opposed to only in the project.

1) Combining broll. These days, tapeless cameras split clips whenever the camera is turned off. This can lead to having tons of short clips. Sometimes I'll grab all the related broll and throw it into a single connected clip and then I can scrub one clip for all the footage I need rather than have to sift through dozens of clips looking for a shot.

2) Browser compounds can be moved to other events, and even other libraries.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 27, 2014 at 5:32:11 pm

1) Combining broll. These days, tapeless cameras split clips whenever the camera is turned off. This can lead to having tons of short clips. Sometimes I'll grab all the related broll and throw it into a single connected clip and then I can scrub one clip for all the footage I need rather than have to sift through dozens of clips looking for a shot.

Thanks for that. That seems a very sensible workflow I like it.


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Bret Williams
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 28, 2014 at 7:33:04 pm

That's sort of the point of a keyword collection isn't it?


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Bill Davis
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 29, 2014 at 6:38:38 am

[Bret Williams] "That's sort of the point of a keyword collection isn't it?"

Yes, but in fairness, you can't scrub through a bunch of clips in a keyword collection with the same fluidity that you can scrub through a string out. You have to, at best, play at high speed and hit the down arrow to shift to the next clip before you loop back. That's not as fluid as playhead scrubbing across a bunch of clips in a long temporary storyline.

I don't use stringouts in my timelines myself - largely because I expect that after the work I do in the Event Browser with my Tagging, I'll pretty much know what goes where in my edits. And I'm happy to just use a keyword collection of B-Roll to do the task that timeline string outs used to do for me when I cut in Legacy. Timeline string outs feel like an old fashioned idea now that I understand the Event Browser and Keywords - but I get the allure for those coming out of the era where string outs were a smart way to visually scan material in older NLE systems.

To each their own, I say.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 28, 2014 at 2:16:36 pm

[Andy Neil] "Browser compounds can be moved to other events, and even other libraries."

I don't actually know of NON-browser (i.e. event) compounds.


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Andy Neil
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 28, 2014 at 10:43:03 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "I don't actually know of NON-browser (i.e. event) compounds"

Not anymore. But when FCPX was first released, compounds that were created in the timeline were not available in the event. This oversight has since been corrected, but I sometimes forget.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Craig Alan
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 27, 2014 at 3:43:49 pm

Robin, I thought that if you made a compound in the timeline that a copy is saved in the browser.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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James Ewart
Re: Auditions and Compound Clips
on Sep 27, 2014 at 5:07:43 pm

I thought that if you made a compound in the timeline that a copy is saved in the browser.

It is.


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