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Low quality on export of movie created by stills

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Sascha Engel
Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 17, 2014 at 5:12:43 am

Hi Dear X Men,

I have a question, that puzzles me a bit.
Hopefully any of you has an answer:
I had to finish a film for a theatre show yesterday, that actually was done by another editor, who worked on PPro.
The editor went on vacation, and the choreographer wanted some changes in the film.
Unfortunately, the PPro projects were corrupted and I could not open them on my system.
So, since it was just several images of statues, on music, I rebuild the sequence in FCPX.
Since the the final projection is on a normal Beamer, I made a SD project. After finishing, I exported it as SD QT movie Apple ProRes 25p.
When I compared the result to the MP4, very compressed, reference film, that the other editor exported from PPro, I was in shock.
The FCPX export looked a lot less crispy and sharp - even though my export was a 2 GB ProRes file, and hers was a highly compressed 100MB MP4 file.
So, I set the project to 720p, rendered again to ProRes and still the resolution was less sharp and way softer than the PPro export.
The images where PNGs, PSDs and a view JPEGs.
What can be the reason for this?
Any idea, why X delivers so much worse than PPro here?


Thanx a lot for any thoughts.


Greetings,


Sascha.

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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John Fishback
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 17, 2014 at 8:54:12 pm

Was her project 720P or 1080P? I edit a lot of 720P footage. I noticed a while back that if I built graphics in AE at 720P, they appeared soft in FCPX. When I built the graphics in a 1080P composition, then the graphics were crisp. Maybe something similar is happening to you. Maybe edit in an HD project and export to SD. Or, maybe better would be to export the HD movie and the make the SD from that using AE, Compressor, Squeeze or whatever encoder you use.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.9.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCP-X 10.1.3, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 12:10:17 pm

Hi John,

As I wrote before, it was HiRes images, either original or treated in PS without resizing and then I worked on a SD TL in FCPX.
After I realised it was much softer, I actually redid it in 720p TL, exported HD, and then scaled it in AE to SD and exported again,
but still, even then the AE export in ProRes was softer and a lot less sharp than the previous export from this project in PPro, even though this export was MP4 and only 100MB and only 640on480.



Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 12:18:10 pm

I take it you don't actually have the project data from the other person? Can you say for sure that he/she didn't in fact use some additional filters or the likes (a sharpener)? Because I can't think of anything that would cause what you're seeing. At least I've never experienced it myself, nor have I heard of it otherwise. In fact, at least in the area of H.264, my experience has been that Adobe's encoder, if anything, is noticeably WORSE than that from Apple/FCP.


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 12:37:48 pm

No, unfortunately, the PPro project is corrupted, that i why I had to rebuild it in FCPX.
But I can say almost for 100% sure that no sharpening filter was used.
That is why I am so confused, since the original images are super crispy and the export is a lot more soft.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 12:47:11 pm

Any chance you could post a frame of each for comparison?


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 12:57:28 pm

Here you go:





Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 3:43:36 pm

When you Reveal IN Finder one one of the stills, where does it take you?

In the inspector, what is your spatial conform set to?


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 3:53:34 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "When you Reveal IN Finder one one of the stills, where does it take you?"

Good point. Did you choose to make optimised or even proxy media on import??

[Jeremy Garchow] "In the inspector, what is your spatial conform set to?"

That shouldn't affect the overall quality.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 4:00:48 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "That shouldn't affect the overall quality."

Not unless it's conformed AND scaled, then essentially, it's a double scale.

This probably isn't the issue, but it's worth exploring, no?


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 18, 2014 at 4:09:51 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "but it's worth exploring, no?"

Sure. Only if it's on "Fill" why would you want/need to scale it? And if it's on "None" then scaling it wouldn't make things worse. But then I haven't tried every possible combination and (scientifically) compared, so sure... give it a look. Who knows. :)

But I did in fact compare "fitting" then scaling and "none-ing" and scaling on a *video* (both "raw" and in a compound) and saw no perceivable difference. Who knows if matters are different with stills. Certainly a worthwhile possibility to exclude.

Proceed. ;)


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:15:45 pm

Spatial conform was set to fill.


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:17:33 pm

Reveal in Finder takes me to the "Original Media" Folder.

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:45:02 pm

[Sascha Engel] "Reveal in Finder takes me to the "Original Media" Folder.
"


OK.

Compare that still with the original still. See any differences?


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:34:13 pm

Looking both exactly the same, since I just imported into EVENT FOLDER, but not create optimised media.

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:38:15 pm

Cool. Sorry, this is so boring, but I like to go step by step.

If you change the spatial conform to "none" on one of the stills in the timeline, and then scale back down to fit, does the quality change?


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:47:21 pm

Tried it, just now.
One like it was: Spatial conform Fit and Scaling how it was, and the other one, NONE and then scaling to same size.
I am totally anal person and there is absolutely no difference at all.

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:53:23 pm

Then it seems like it comes down to some sort of encoding error or bug with the format.

When you single click on a photo in the browser and open the inspector, what does it say for frame rate?

Let me poke around a PAL project and see if I can reproduce.


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 24, 2014 at 6:44:14 am

Hi Jeremy,

Thanx for your willingness to get on the bottom of this.
Unfortunately, I was not in the studio anymore when I read this.
Here is New Year's now, so I can only check it in 3 days.
But I certainly will, since it's driving me nuts! ;-)

Happy New Year! Shana Tova.


Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:05:48 pm

Hi Jeremy,

It says:

2215*3286 pixels and 60fps and JPEG.

Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Sascha Engel
Re: Low quality on export of movie created by stills
on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:08:07 pm

The 60fps is only on the un altered still, as soon as there is a CC or effect on them the Inspector says 25fps.

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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