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Flattening multicam

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Oliver Peters
Flattening multicam
on Sep 13, 2014 at 7:27:39 pm

In previous posts, this was a no, but I figured that I'd check. in 10.1.3, is there a way to flatten a multicam clip to end up with only the angles used in the timeline?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 13, 2014 at 10:41:50 pm

I'm going to say no and hope someone proves me wrong. This would be monumental news.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 13, 2014 at 10:59:42 pm

The only thing I've seen is to wash it through Resolve via an XML roundtrip. That's hardly a solution, of course. However, in the past, there were also issues with multi-cam and FCP 7. That required a match-frame and to edit over the old clip.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Keith Koby
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 1:43:14 pm

Just ran into this issue myself within the last week. Resolve might be your best bet.

I attempted exporting an xml then converting it to 7 with xto7 and then back to x with 7toX. It imported and was without the multi cam, however the 7toX conversion makes unstable timelines for me that cause X to crash. It's always been my experience with 7toX. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with it.

I wish they would change this so that you could better color correct individual shots without leaving fcpx and/or also apply image stabilization to an individual clip.

Keith


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Bill Davis
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 5:53:05 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Sep 15, 2014 at 5:56:59 pm

I'm confused.

Isn't the Project that the multi clip creates exactly that?

It's a flattened version of the choices you've made in the angle editor.

If you want to make a copy of that, just select your primary storyline, copy the contents, and past it into a new Project. That should BE a flattened copy of your multicam switch.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Keith Koby
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 6:02:34 pm

By flattening, what is meant is that your cuts in the project link back to the original media, not back to the multicam synchronized clip.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 6:25:04 pm

The odd part is that the function exists for audition clips, but not multi-cam clips.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 6:56:01 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Sep 15, 2014 at 7:03:35 pm

Ah, so a collaborative video workflow definition of "flattening" rather than the "flattening" in the graphics sense - which most of us work with as well.

Time for some new words?

This use sounds more like workflow "streamlining" or perhaps "link compressing" than "flattening" - particularly in a program that doesn't speak verticality ala "tracks."

On a more practical tack, does said "flattening" SWITCH all the pointers from the AngleEditor metadata pool to the Event Browser metadata pool, no going back ala flattening a Photoshop composite or do you want to maintain both the pre-flattened and post flattened states?

Is it adding data, or just changing pointers. And if the latter, are we looking to change links from a rendered media pool to a fixed one that lives in the Library?

Just interested in how you see it implemented.




Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 15, 2014 at 9:24:26 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Sep 15, 2014 at 9:25:15 pm

To be more precise, the desired function is what FCP 7 does and it's called "collapse multi-clip" in FCP 7. In a sense, that's the same as flattening, since you are eliminating the extraneous angles from the edited timeline.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 16, 2014 at 12:13:23 am

[Oliver Peters] "In a sense, that's the same as flattening, since you are eliminating the extraneous angles from the edited timeline.
"


Then I'm even more confused.

Isn't that precisely what X does in the relationship between the Angle Editor and the Multiclip as it resides in a Primary Storyline?

The Angle Editor preserves all the multicam data, while it reflects in a "collapsed" form into the Primary.

I kinda took Keith's point to be about about wanting the "flattening" somehow reflected back upstream to the Multiclip in the Event Browser (IF that was what he was saying and I wan't interpreting everything incorrectly)

What's missing?

And sorry I'm so slow with this. I'm honestly confused about what X is not doing that you want it to do Oliver.

I'm sure its just me not "getting" it.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 16, 2014 at 12:48:53 am

[Bill Davis] "Isn't that precisely what X does in the relationship between the Angle Editor and the Multiclip as it resides in a Primary Storyline?"

I think there are arguments in favor of each approach, but if the angles are always preserved, you run the risk of inadvertently changing an angle in the timeline due to an errant keystroke. In addition, when you match frame, it goes back to the multi-clip and not the original source.

I'm also not sure how performance is affected by multi-cam. I haven't done anything with a lot of taxing media, so I'm not sure if having the other angles there slows the machine in the same way as a multi-layered compound would.

Part of it is just my desire to end up with a clean, finalized sequence, without any loose ends. I also overwrite to the storyline and delete disabled clips, whenever possible. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Keith Koby
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 16, 2014 at 1:28:18 am

Also, there are things you can do with regular clips that you can't do to a multicam clip like stabilize. Also you may have clips from one angle that need to be color corrected in different ways depending on how zoomed in the image is. You can color correct in the multicam clip opened in its own timeline, but that is applied to all uses of your clip.

So it would be nice to have that functionality of 7 where you can collapse the multicam after you finished editing.


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James Ewart
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 10:16:58 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Sep 16, 2014 at 4:26:20 pm

I've had some success taking a bit of an angle and applying stabilise to just that section. It is a bit annoying not being able to apply stabilise to shots within the Multicam project.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 4:17:32 pm

[James Ewart] "I've had some success baking a bit of an angle and applying stabilise to just that section. It is a bit annoying not being able to apply stabilise to shots within the Multicam project."

It would be nice if we could simply match back to the original source (instead of the multiclip) and add another instance in to the timeline. Right now, you have to double click the mutliclip, find the in and out points manually in the angle editor, cut the clip, and stabilize that cut clip in the angle editor.

Super convoluted and it could be a lot easier.

The problem I see with flattening a multi clip is that the audio would become a mess if the multiclip wasn't in the primary storyline. There will need to be a structural change to X (like allowing connected clips to non-primaries) in order for flatting of multi clips to not be a total cluster.


PS Does any one else say multiclip sort of like Leeloo says multipass?







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Keith Koby
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 4:48:09 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "The problem I see with flattening a multi clip is that the audio would become a mess if the multiclip wasn't in the primary storyline. There will need to be a structural change to X (like allowing connected clips to non-primaries) in order for flatting of multi clips to not be a total cluster."

Yes the audio gets messy. When you use the x to 7 to x - "xml roundtrip" as I described earlier, you end up with the source audio cut up into a bunch of connected clips. I imagine the same to be true of the x to resolve process. It certainly is that way when you go x to pro... The audio guy goes, "why in the heck did you blade the audio to shreds?"

So perhaps an easier way to match a multicam angle cut in the project back to an original clip (selecting that as a range) would be a good solution. But even that is still messy because any color corrections you may have applied in the multicam angle will not be back on your original.

I'll take the flattening and the ugly audio connections so that color that I may have applied in the angles comes through to the flattened clips in the timeline.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 4:49:47 pm

[Keith Koby] "I'll take the flattening and the ugly audio connections so that color that I may have applied in the angles comes through to the flattened clips in the timeline."

I'm with you. Let's get this party started.


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James Ewart
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 5:44:34 pm

when I apply colour correction in angle editor I see it in Multicam sequence


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James Ewart
Re: Flattening multicam (bit off topic)
on Sep 16, 2014 at 4:55:38 pm

But isn't that the other problem? The audio all gets bladed to shreds anyway. Ideally we have to expand all audio components and then drag the ones we are using back along the timeline to get rod of them and I suppose disable those we don't want to use. or has this been fixed?


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David Howard
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 17, 2014 at 9:13:01 am

did you try compound clip ?

Redefined Media

Video Production Sydney


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James Ewart
Re: Flattening multicam
on Sep 17, 2014 at 11:14:03 am

"did you try compound clip ?"

Um no...does that get rid of the little audio edits you can occasionally hear?


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