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Eric Santiago
Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:03:22 am

Shot a short with two Sony EX3s and audio using Sound Devices.
Media looks clean no real issues.
In FCPX using multi-cam, camera B tends to be a few frames off almost a quarter of a second off.
I can eyeball thanks to the clapper but honestly why isnt this working?
Works fine using Sync but curious as to what is up with the Multi-cam clip option?
Its def something to do with one of the Cam clips cause even with external audio out of the mix, it just doesnt work.


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Bill Davis
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 4:05:05 am

Have you checked the files with MediaInfo or a similar file info disclosure tool to see if both cameras had all the settings consistent? Typically, sync issues come when the time base of two streams are different. It's also possible that your system is having problems keeping up with the streams. Whats your import codec? Did you let X do a ProRes transcode? Did you transcode to Proxy and try that?

Those are where I'd look first.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 4:50:30 am

Try turning off sync by timecode, but rather sync by audio.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 12:42:24 pm

Thanks folks.
Yes to most of the questions.
Ive tried all options at sync point.
I also checked the footage info and both are same format and framerate.
Only diff is that one starts later than the other.
Like I said, works great using the Sync option but not so good using Multi-Cam.
Ive never had this issue before with other cameras, just this EX-3 project is killing me.
The original NLE was FCP7.
Editor was eyeballing the audio to the clips.
I got tired of waiting so I took the original sources and started a new project in FCPX.
Since Ive had perfect success with Multi-Cam before, I thought I was going to power through and have it all ready in FCPX.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 1:09:11 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Like I said, works great using the Sync option but not so good using Multi-Cam"

This would seem to point to an option in multicam that is throwing the sync off.

What options are you using specifically?

I had a 3 angle multicam last week and supposedly the tc was jam synced, but it tunes out it wasn't quite jammed properly and every angle was a few frames off of the master audio tc (sound devices).

I had to mess around with the sync settings until it all came together.

In your angle viewer, if you show the timecode, does the timecode match for all cameras and audio? If so, that may point to the problem.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 2:05:03 pm

No TC was used in this project so I had to use audio sync.
Which baffles me cause Sync option is bang on with the same clips.
Its not a deal breaker.
I think the originator will have to suck it up and finish in FCP7.
Ive been using 7toX to sync audio after final edits.
A pain to deal with and the works well if we both edit from zero to end.
A lot of copy and paste at specific time frames :P


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:25:42 pm

[Eric Santiago] "No TC was used in this project so I had to use audio sync.
Which baffles me cause Sync option is bang on with the same clips."


I do think this problem could be solved with a little investigation.

I would doubt (and I could be wrong) that FCPX uses a different audio sync engine when creating synchronized clips vs multi clips.

What is different with multi clips is the amount of metadata and sorting that can aid in the sync and organization process. That is to say, what FCPX can use to sync, and then how it subsequently arranges the clips and angles, including the container format/frame of the multiclip itself, as well as a starting timecode. There are a lot more variables than a synchronized clip.

You can also simply move the clips back in to sync in the angle editor at any time, which might be handy if everything is only a few frames off.

If you aren't interested, that's cool, and maybe you found a bug, which would be good to know about as well.

If you are up for it, I'd like to see what sync settings you are using specifically.

Jeremy


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Michael Sanders
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:39:11 pm

This is why you should use Timecode! It solves all these problems.. I know its all very well after the horse as bolted but it really does solve a lot of time.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:43:36 pm

[Michael Sanders] "This is why you should use Timecode! It solves all these problems.. "

It can, but it doesn't solve it if the tc is off.

On the last shoot that was handed over, supposedly, the tc was jammed. I told FCPX to sync by tc, and it did. Everything was off by a few frames. I resynced using audio, and everything matched perfectly.


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Michael Sanders
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:46:42 pm

mmm. weird. I've done loads of multi cam shoots and we've never had an issue.

Personally I try really hard to avoid Jam sync, and prefer to use lockit or Timecode buddy boxes that keep a constant TC ref. With Jam sync its all to easier for a hiccup to occur.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 3:52:50 pm

This is an honest mistake, but mistakes do happen.


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Eric Santiago
Re: Sync issues
on Jun 10, 2014 at 6:03:21 pm
Last Edited By Eric Santiago on Jun 10, 2014 at 6:03:56 pm

Hey I would love if all clips arrive on my lap with TC, perfect audio, shot in 8K, and color grade approved by paying client ;)

But, there are days when you get the blind leading blind here :P


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Eric Santiago
Re: Sync issues
on Sep 15, 2014 at 12:31:38 am

Okay revisiting my post after a full feature shoot with my Scarlet.

First off, the whole movie was shot without jam sync (out of my control here) and used a scratch mic on the Scarlet and a Sound Devices 744T.
Ive convinced the post people that I have FCPX under control using Audio Sync so I took the challenge of prepping the files.
I have 13 days of shooting and got through day 1 to 7 as well as 11 with maybe a 98% success rate on sync.
Now I dont mind the 2% as far as manually syncing but for some odd reason day 8 has been a total mess in regards to sync.
I got 12 clips and gave up to write this.
I rebooted the system a few times and even went back to older projects and they seem to sync up fine.
But this set of files on day 8 has me stumped.
Checked the audio on both scratch and SD and found nothing odd in regards to file format and audio levels.
Anyone experience this?


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Eric Santiago
Re: Sync issues
on Sep 15, 2014 at 3:05:39 am

Update:

All is well and I dont have a clue how it fixed itself.
So far after the first 20 clips the rest (Im now at 160 clips in) worked 100% each attempt.

Weird :P


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