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Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...

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Charlie Austin
Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 3:35:36 am

For the sake of argument, lets say you had a bunch of feature dailies. Every scene was shot with 2 cameras which is easy. Make a multicam and go. But, lets say that each 2 camera scene also has an A,B,C version. Same scene, different angles, different takes, different timecode. So, the full coverage for the scene is in 2 or more separate 2 camera takes. How would you deal with that?

In a perfect world it'd all be in one multi cam I guess, but since each "angle" is a separate 2 camera angle all shot separately, how would you do this? A big pile of multicam clips? Sync all the angle "pairs" and then add them to one mutlclip and sync these pairs by hand? This is all theoretical of course, I'm not cutting a feature, my attention span is way too short. ;-) I just have access to some dailies and wonder how on earth one would go about this. :-) Thanks!

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~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bill Davis
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 5:40:03 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Apr 12, 2014 at 5:40:38 am

What's the nature of the multi-cam coverage? Is it wide and tight of the same scene - or iso's on two performers. In other words, do you NEED to pull the shot from one camera and then use the matching shot from the second camera - or are you going to intercut the "best performances" from across different takes. That's going to determine whether I'm going to just rely on range tagging to isolate the best from many choices - or whether I truly need to sync the two angles in every pair in advance, so I can cut between them without discontinuities.

I can think of a few contender workflow options. If the scene sync is paramount, I might even use the old trick and pre-comp the two camera takes from each scene into into individual "two window" composites for each take - then bring THAT into the angle editor so I could "see" both camera options across all the takes in order to do a very rough cut.

But I'd hope that the job actually called for just finding the best "shot angle" for each scene - and I could do that much more easily with ratings tags in the Event - rather than trying to make my selections downstream in the storyline.

My off the cuff thinking anyway.

Others may have better ideas.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 6:04:56 am

[Bill Davis] "What's the nature of the multi-cam coverage?"

Seems like (generally) a really wide/wide master A/B, Medium ActorA/ActorB, and Low Angle actor A/Actor B. And usually A or B in the secondary pairs will be roving around focusing on either other actors, changing focal lengths etc. And like I said, each A/B pair is sync, (and have multiple takes) but the pairs do not necessarily sync (in a multicam sense) with each other. Same scene, different setups.

There is a lot of coverage, and I'm just wondering if it would generally be cut just from the sources, or could somehow be stuck in a multi cam? Or something.

Really just curious, and this isn't specifically FCP X related, really it's a "how do feature editors deal with this kind of coverage". Question.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy Neil
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 6:24:55 am

[Charlie Austin] "Really just curious, and this isn't specifically FCP X related, really it's a "how do feature editors deal with this kind of coverage". Question."

Typically feature editors only multi group simultaneous camera takes. So in your example, there would be a number of multiclips for each camera position. Possibly the multiclips would include all the takes from that position, but sometimes not.

However, FCPX's multi cam feature is quite flexible, more so than other NLEs and Mark Spencer showed a workflow using the angle editor as a means to "sync" up multiple takes from multiple angles when the cameras weren't shot simultaneously. Currently I'm cutting a music video which did 4 takes of one song using 3 cameras simultaneously. Placed in a single multiclip, I have 12 angles to choose from. I have to slip most of the shots a little to match the music, but it's nice to have instant access to all the useful angles at a time.

The downside is that it tends to restrict you a little too. You start to miss things that can't be found at the timecode you're cutting from. For example, you're cutting an OTS of one character and want to cut to a reax. However, the reverse shot doesn't have a good reax at that point. You'll sometimes forget to look at much earlier or later in the scene where the perfect reaction shot resides.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Charlie Austin
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 6:54:43 am

[Andy Neil] "Typically feature editors only multi group simultaneous camera takes. So in your example, there would be a number of multiclips for each camera position"

Then how the heck do you cut from, say 3 different multi clips, or do you just not use a "multi cam" edit style? Or do a "master" from each synced pair, and then use those as multicam sources? I guess there's lots of ways to do it...

[Andy Neil] " Mark Spencer showed a workflow using the angle editor as a means to "sync" up multiple takes from multiple angles when the cameras weren't shot simultaneously."

I had thought about that, I could sync the pairs in the angle editor via TC, and then get the sync between the multiple pairs close enough to cut with... Again, this is all academic, just happened to have all the dailies from a fairly enormous feature and I'm just messing around. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy Neil
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 7:07:29 am

[Charlie Austin] "Then how the heck do you cut from, say 3 different multi clips, or do you just not use a "multi cam" edit style?"

Exactly, you don't cut multi cam style. The multiclips are for convenience when more than two cameras roll on a take, but you group your scenes by take and by shot (wide, med, cu) and you're looking for the best performances to make up the scene. Just as you say, there are numerous ways to do it, but that's what has worked best for me.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Bill Davis
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 13, 2014 at 4:23:50 pm

[Andy Neil] "The downside is that it tends to restrict you a little too. You start to miss things that can't be found at the timecode you're cutting from. For example, you're cutting an OTS of one character and want to cut to a reax. However, the reverse shot doesn't have a good reax at that point. You'll sometimes forget to look at much earlier or later in the scene where the perfect reaction shot resides."

This is huge, but X has a system that can handle it really, really well. You start in multi-cam and do essentially a multi pass rough cut there. I say multi-pass, because the way the angle editor works, you can back up and re-switch at will - and of course, go to the resulting storyline and roll your edits if your punch in timing is off.

Then just drop back into your primary storyline and use the key wording you've done when you were reviewing your coverage (you DID do your global key wording didn't you???) where you tagged all your exceptional shots either by type or simply as Favorites - and add them as traditional B-roll since presumably they wouldn't really need the type of global syncs your main scenes.

The "tiered cutting" approach in X Multicam is one of the things that makes it so wonderful. Cut, adjust, backup, re-cut, perfect, add b-roll as needed via connected clips - move on.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Michael Sanders
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 12, 2014 at 8:56:21 pm

Multicam in X is fab and very flexible but be aware if your going out to Resolve...

If you make a multicam clip that has more than two clips (say an interview where you've cut a few times), it might cause you problems. You can't for instance do any tracking windows as Resolve will through up a "No Media Pool Clip to Track"

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Charlie Austin
Re: Feature (multi cam?) Workflow Question...
on Apr 13, 2014 at 3:13:33 am

[Michael Sanders] "Multicam in X is fab and very flexible but be aware if your going out to Resolve..."

Thanks Michael. As I said, this isn't a real gig (it is for someone, but not I..) I just have all the source footage and It's a good way for me to mess around with a workflow I don't have chops in... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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