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RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?

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Peter Dunphy
RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 2:18:41 pm

Hi Guys

We have installers coming to set up a PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System on Tuesday.

Would you suggest the system is formatted to RAID 5 For FCPX 10.1 editing?


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Tim Jones
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 3:29:51 pm

While it would be great if there could be a cut and dried answer, there are a few questions here that you should consider -
  • Are you using Enterprise-grade disks or consumer-grade disks?
  • Are you going to use the array for long term storage, or just day to day editing operations?
  • Are you backing the content up to an alternate device (disk, tape, cloud)?
  • Do you need the full 12TB, or is 10TB enough (the difference between RAID 0 and RAID 5 formatting)?

If you are using Enterprise-grade disks, the disks have a much longer MTBF, so RAID 5 over RAID 0 (striping) is less of a requirement.

If you are using the array for long term media storage, RAID 5 gets a nod.

If you are backing up the content regularly, RAID 0 gets a nod if you're backing up.

If that extra 2TB makes a difference, then RAID-0 wins.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 4:03:41 pm

[Peter Dunphy] "We have installers coming to set up a PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System on Tuesday. "

Why? it is a plug and play system, the config utility is simple and easy to understand.

I always recommend using Raid 5 at minimum, if you need that extra 2TB for something you should have bought a bigger array, NOTHING in post is more painful than loosing data to dead drives, at least with riad 5 redundancy you have some safety net on your projects.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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John Davidson
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 5:08:26 pm

Exactly right Gary. Plug it in and leave it alone. It’s preformatted as RAID5 and that’s exactly what you want.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Bret Williams
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 8:22:33 pm

Mine did have to go through some routine that took all night though.


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 9:52:47 pm

[Bret Williams] "Mine did have to go through some routine that took all night though."

I have most of the monitoring tools set to run in the background, and I NEVER have any external drive set for journalling.

They come formatted out the of the box, but overnight for 12+ TB is pretty good, it would take the early Xraids what seemed like forever to format 4 or 6 TB of space.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Bret Williams
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 9:58:42 pm

I forget what it's called, but yes it was already formatted for raid 5. It just had to do some process that took many hours or overnight until it had full speed. I just have the r4 8tb, so I take a 25% space hit. But mine is my current projects drive. When projects are done I consolidate them to a mirrored raid. A guardian Maximus from newer tech.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 14, 2014 at 9:56:39 pm

[Bret Williams] "Mine did have to go through some routine that took all night though."

My Pegasus R6 (6TB) took around 24 hours to get through the setup, which was waaaay longer than the instructions indicated. No problem, just unexpected and disconcerting.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Peter Dunphy
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 12:16:45 pm
Last Edited By Peter Dunphy on Mar 15, 2014 at 12:42:23 pm

**Are you using Enterprise-grade disks or consumer-grade disks?

Here's the info I got about the type of disks in the Pegasus2 we'll be receiving:

"I've done a little bit of research and I can confirm that the Promise Pegasus R6 Drives are enterprise grade hard drives. They are 7200 rpm SATA drives that are made by Promise."


**Are you going to use the array for long term storage, or just day to day editing operations?

day to day editing operations


**Are you backing the content up to an alternate device (disk, tape, cloud)?

nope

**Do you need the full 12TB, or is 10TB enough (the difference between RAID 0 and RAID 5 formatting)?

10TB is fine


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 3:33:37 pm

[Peter Dunphy] ""I've done a little bit of research and I can confirm that the Promise Pegasus R6 Drives are enterprise grade hard drives. They are 7200 rpm SATA drives that are made by Promise.""

I do not know where you got that info but it is incorrect- Promise does not make any hard drives,

Drives listed in my units (I have 5 units) are all from Hitachi and can be checked via the serial numbers and model used in the Promise Raid Utility App.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Peter Dunphy
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 5:00:53 pm

Interesting Gary, thanks for the info, will check it out.


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Peter Dunphy
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 5:04:56 pm

HI Gary

Are these maybe the kinds of drives the supplier I'm dealing with was referring to? (e.g. PROMISE 2TB Pegasus R Series SATA Drive Module)

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/HA019LL/A/promise-2tb-pegasus-r-series-sa...


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 11:48:58 pm

[Peter Dunphy] "Are these maybe the kinds of drives the supplier I'm dealing with was referring to? (e.g. PROMISE 2TB Pegasus R Series SATA Drive Module"

Like I said, I have 5 units I know what is in them, I am not guessing by reading incomplete info on the Apple store.

[Peter Dunphy] "Are these maybe the kinds of drives the supplier I'm dealing with was referring to?"

If you power down and open a unit up you will see the drive Mfg or you can look in the Promise Utility under the "Physical Drive" and it will list the part number

Like - ST3000DM001 where a quick search called up the fact that these are Seagate (Hitachi) 3TB barracuda drives.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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John Davidson
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 15, 2014 at 11:59:23 pm

I was going to get a Promise2 8 bay, but then I saw on the Promise website the the 8 drive array version uses 5900rpm drives.

Here:
http://www.promise.com/promotion_page/promotion_page.aspx?region=en-global&...

At the very bottom:
*Pegasus2 R8 32TB model is populated with 5900 RPM SATA drives. All other Pegasus2 models are populated with 7200RPM SATA drives.

So instead of dropping $4300 on a Promise with reduced speed drives, I ordered the Areca TB2 8 bay empty chassis and am populating it with eight 4TB Hitachi Deskstars. Total cost - $3500. Bob Zelin has tested these and confirmed they'll get about 1300 MB/s. Pretty ample for a backup array.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:30:16 pm

[John Davidson] "*Pegasus2 R8 32TB model is populated with 5900 RPM SATA drives. All other Pegasus2 models are populated with 7200RPM SATA drives."

I have the 24TB P2R8 and it uses 7200 RPM Barracuda drives.
It is ONLY the 32T model that uses the slower drives (not currently shipping due to a issue with drive performance)

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Peter Dunphy
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:17:26 am

Thanks for the info Gary, will delve deeper, appreciate it


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Joe Marler
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 16, 2014 at 11:55:14 am

[Jason Jenkins] "My Pegasus R6 (6TB) took around 24 hours to get through the setup, which was waaaay longer than the instructions indicated. No problem, just unexpected and disconcerting."

On an 8TB Thunderbolt Pegasus 1 R4, I did extensive tests on this and reported my results to Promise. It appears the initial RAID 5 synchronization time is heavily influenced by stripe size. At the default of 128k, my 8TB R4 took over 83 hr (3.5 days) to sync. 256k and larger stripe sizes were much faster to sync. At 512k or larger, it took about 10 hr.

I tested three different R4 chassis and two different four-drive sets. I don't know if the Pegasus 2 is any different. R4 chassis firmware: 5.02.0000.98. Drive sets were 4 x 2TB Toshiba DT01ACA2, with firmware of MX4OABB0. Using Promise utility, background sync rate was on "high".

Details and data graph: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=18576138&postcount=1


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Craig Alan
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 16, 2014 at 9:01:39 pm

After it took all day to finish on the first one I set up, I was on the fence about this. I decided to back up any important original P2 files (and other) media on a separate raid 5 drive and backup any important library upon completing an important project. I formatted the raids as 0. That leaves more space and a faster system on the editing computers.

But as this is a school there is no money on the line if a drive fails.

Raid 5 really only helps if one of the drives fails within a raid. While this can happen, the drives are all fairly new and the same age. I think I'd be more conservative as the drives age. Also if this was mission critical storage, I'd replace all the drives after three years, give or take. Use them in some other capacity.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never had a drive fail before 3 years. File corruption ... rare but has happened. My feeling is media drives need to be wiped clean and reformatted when possible. Keeps the speed up and less likely to get corrupted.

All that said our raids only have 4 drives which means I'd be loosing 1/4 of total capacity.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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John Davidson
Hard drive failure rates by brand
on Mar 16, 2014 at 9:06:21 pm

Hard drive failure rates by brand.

http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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gary adcock
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:27:20 pm

[Craig Alan] "Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never had a drive fail before 3 years."

Please be forewarned.
Drives fail, they are designed with a specific lifespan at manufacture. What happens in the school when the content is lost and students are not able to complete their assigned tasks?

Some drives fail much more than others.
http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Craig Alan
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:33:00 am

Yes I know and I am on the fence. But like I said we back up important projects and the in class projects have a quick turn around. However, when this semester is over I'll most likely back up stuff worth keeping and reformat the drives to raid 5. First time for me learning a P2 workflow and organizing this much media. In the past I was tape based and used 2 gig G-techs raid 0. Never had drives of this size or speed.

Do raids put more stress on the drives or is life span life span regardless? A will say the that pegasus runs very quiet and very cool to the touch.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Tim Jones
Re: RAID 5 formatting for PROMISE Pegasus2 R6 12TB (6 x 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System for FCPX 10.1?
on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:48:24 pm
Last Edited By Tim Jones on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:49:05 pm

It is VERY important to note that BackBlaze admits to using only the CHEAPEST drives possible. While there is a market for these drives, it's also important to understand that there is a reason for the pricing delta between a consumer-grade drive (all of the units mentioned by BackBlaze are consumer / desktop drives) and Enterprise-grade drives. Our experience with the Seagate and WD desktop drives is very similar to the numbers presented by BB. However, our experience with Seagate's ES class 3.5" and 2.5" drives is very different - in the sub-1% range over thousands of customer-placed drives.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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