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Audio TC frame rate

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james Lackleter
Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 14, 2014 at 12:36:12 am

Has anyone found a way to change timecode frame rate of Wave files inside of FCPX or upon import?


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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 14, 2014 at 4:19:29 am

Not that I'm aware. Is there some reason you need to?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 14, 2014 at 4:27:02 am

Audio is drifting for a scene, I need to change the playback to 23.98. This seems like another basic function missing.


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Mark Morache
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 14, 2014 at 6:16:26 am

Depending on the length of the clip, one thing to try would be to select the audio clip and press cmd-R to open the speed track. You can now adjust the length of the audio track to match the video.

Oh, I forgot, in 10.1 you can now type in a custom length. Select the audio, pull down the speed menu and select "Custom". You can now type in a specific length or speed.

I've gotten burned by audio drift too.

Good luck.

---------
Don't live your life in a secondary storyline.

Mark Morache
FCPX/FCP7/Xpri/Avid
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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John Fishback
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 14, 2014 at 9:54:44 pm

Wave Agent from Sound Devices allows you to reset the audio metadata of a wav file.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:36:50 am

Yes I did try wave agent, it's reading as 23.98 in FCPX but not syncing. The video clip is 24 fps, but the project is 23.98 so FCPX is suppose to be pulling it down correct? When I run the same files in Avid, same settings it's syncing. I guess the difference it's I'm setting audio to 23.97 upon import.


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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:55:09 am

Is it a conformed film? Where's the video coming from that it's 24fps? Is the video frame rate for the video clip 24fps? The audio frame rate? The project settings? I'm a little confused about all the specifics you're dealing with.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 4:21:46 am

It's an R3D that was filmed at 24 fps, the proxy was created in FCPX as a 24 fps pro res. The project setting is 23.98. The Audio FR is 23.98.

I will make a proxy in davinci at 23.98 for video and import, one sec. I just though FCPX was suppose to play files at the project setting regardless of framerate, but maybe not.


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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:30:41 am

Did you try using a 24p sequence?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:32:12 am
Last Edited By james Lackleter on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:35:59 am

So I created a 23.98 project. I changed the audio frame rate from 30 ND to 23.98, it's sample rate is 48000

The video was recorded at 24 fps, I changed it to 23.98 fps. (too match rest of footage, they filmed in 24 fps as a mistake)

Still syncing problems. Importing into Avid and changing audio to 23.98 ND at import solves the issue. I'd love to avoid cutting this Avid though as the thing is done in FCPX. Help is greatly appreciated.

Have not tried a 24p sequence, let me give it a whirl. I should mention changing to AIFF with know audio frame rate information doesn't work either.


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:47:17 am
Last Edited By james Lackleter on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:51:19 am

Copy and pasted into 24 p timeline.

Audio at 24 fps, and video at 23.98 syncs.

Audio at 24 fps and video at 24 fps does not.

Also I imported the audio at 23.98 ND so I don't know why it's showing up as 24 now... But it is. I know FCPX has problems handling wave files, or this could be one of it's automation features messing up the timecode.



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gary adcock
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 4:30:42 pm

[james Lackleter] "Audio at 24 fps, and video at 23.98 syncs.
Audio at 24 fps and video at 24 fps does not.
"


James

It react this way because there cannot be Frames per Second in an audio file, (there are no frames) while there can be timecode, audio files captured as Dual System Sound independent from the camera would match the the camera frame regardless of how the audio was recorded (actually had this happen with a 25P camera and 29.97 tc on the audio)

In the tape era, audio was recorded in ft and inches, in a digital world while we give the audio TC in actuality many of the audio formats do not support a time code track to reduce bleed / crosstalk.

Audio records in minutes and seconds, not FPS and that is why the 2 match.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:04:56 pm

Yes audio is not video but it does FPS for playback. With your logic I can record 48000 samplerate and play it back with 240 fps video and it will match.


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gary adcock
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 16, 2014 at 5:29:30 pm

[james Lackleter] "Yes audio is not video but it does FPS for playback. With your logic I can record 48000 samplerate and play it back with 240 fps video and it will match.
"



No that is not correct- Audio does not record in FPS and never has. Audio on early dual sound recording was done on Nagra style tape decks that recorded the files in ft and inches. Later using minutes and seconds as the metric.

While there may be timecode associated with the audio, there is not any frame indicators on any audio file that I know of.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 16, 2014 at 10:45:28 pm

Yes I see what you mean about the playback. As long as playback is 23.98 there's no way I'm going to get around resampling, but it's so minuscule I don't think it'll matter.

I guess what's confusing is me is the amount of people saying playback is affected by FPS TC inside Final Cut, based on my tests it's not. I'm going to to start a new thread on this because there's too many threads on the internet stating both that it does and does not.


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gary adcock
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 16, 2014 at 10:56:54 pm
Last Edited By gary adcock on Feb 16, 2014 at 10:58:35 pm

[james Lackleter] "I guess what's confusing is me is the amount of people saying playback is affected by FPS TC inside Final Cut, based on my tests it's not."


Lots of people mistake the issue and even more are only regurgitating information that may not directly pertain to your issue.

A good deal of the info online also relates to various versions of FCP, there are differing responses to this issue in the early builds of FCPX and don't forget that FCP7 was horrendous for retiming things without your knowledge if you were not using a PCIe Video card to force timing to a SMPTE clock.

This was none of those. It was a mis-matched acquisition and as long as they were recorded on separate unconnected devices you were ok, as you found out.

Glad that it worked for you.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:59:00 am

Well, there's a lot of different frame rates going on. If the audio was recorded at 30fps and you converted it to 23.98 through a secondary program then perhaps FCP isn't liking the conversion or something. If it works without trouble in Avid, I'd recommend that, but since you mentioned you don't want to jump into Avid for this, you could try the retime tool to fix the drift. It's not ideal, but I'm not sure what else you can do inside X.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 6:54:02 am

I can't retime, I'm a perfectionist.

I'm recutting it unless someone can provide a solution. Because the 23.98 footage was recorded 30 ND too, I can't trust that it isn't off. Wish I caught this earlier but all the 24fps shots are at the end of the film, these are the ones really out of sync.

Apple needs to add something like in Avid where audio frame rate is set on import. I'm a little annoyed because everything I've read on forums has stated it automatically converts video and audio frame rates for you based on the frame rate of your project settings. Clearly that is not the case.


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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:19:40 am

[james Lackleter] "I'm a little annoyed because everything I've read on forums has stated it automatically converts video and audio frame rates for you based on the frame rate of your project settings."

It does in the sequence, but if you're synchronizing video and double system sound, then maybe it's not working properly because of the frame rate differences. If the sync drift is occurring in the project timeline, then I feel like there's something else causing it. Typically FCPX has no problem adjusting pulldown for clips not of the same frame rate of the project. But I've had issues with some audio recorded in some programs (mostly screen capture programs) where sync drifts over long periods and even when corrected in the sequence with the retime tool, the export will still contain drift. I wonder if you're having a problem similar to that.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Andy Neil
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:21:13 am

Oh, hey though. Something else just occurred. I was having an audio glitch in a multiclip the other night and the issue was with my OS user settings. When I created a new user and viewed the project, the problem went away. It can't hurt to try that, just to make sure.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Audio TC frame rate
on Feb 16, 2014 at 10:48:08 pm

Oh and thanks for help guys. As of know i can only resample, or change the framerate of project to 24 to fix. I'm not changing project rate because most of the footage is 23.98


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