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What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?

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Dustin Bowser
What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 8:00:02 am

I want to copy over my project, and all of the events that it refers to, because there is footage in there that I I haven't used yet but need to use. I try to use the Copy Project command, and all that did was create a new event and throw all of the clips in there with no organization at all.

The only other thing I can see to try is Consolidate Project Media, but I also don't want that, because I want to maintain the event organization that I already have.

How can I do this?

There are many events referenced, so doing it manually one at a time isn't really an option that is acceptable, especially considering this function used to be here.


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Paul Figgiani
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 1:32:59 pm

Dustin,

Page 13.

-paul.


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Dustin Bowser
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 3:49:50 pm

So.....is the answer that you can't anymore? I don't see anything on that page about copying the Referenced Events. Again, I don't want to consolidate any media, because I want everything organized EXACTLY like I already have it which took a bunch of time... I don't want all my clips now just thrown into one big consolidated library.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 7:58:37 pm

[Dustin Bowser] "I want to copy over my project, and all of the events that it refers to, because there is footage in there that I I haven't used yet but need to use."

Sort the Browser by "unused media" by hitting control-u.

That will show you your unused media. There's no reason to create yet another library for this.

Jeremy


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Dustin Bowser
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 8:53:42 pm

Maybe what I'm trying to do isn't clear...


I'm working on a feature film that has a separate event for each shoot day. Because of several factors, this is the reason things need to be broken up. There are many shoot days, which encompass the media, and there are more being added as the project is still in production.

I have been breaking off various events to work on on my laptop so that I can focus in on various sections, doing logging of dialogue and adding markers, making selects etc....

I have an Edit that I would like to split off from my main machine and keep working on, and I would like every Event that refers to the project to come along with it. I want the WHOLE event, not just the footage used in the edit. I want the event as it exists now, I don't want anything moved, rearranged, reconsolidated or anything like that, because as I said, things are separated for specific reasons.

Now, before, this wasn't an issue because there was a function that existed that was precisely what I'm needing.

Now however, there doesn't seem to be any way to copy a project somewhere with anything but the actual media used.

Does this make sense what I'm trying to do?

Also, as I said, there are many events, so copying over manually one at a time is a completely ridiculous and frustrating solution that I want to stay completely away from.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 10:09:41 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Jan 29, 2014 at 10:10:19 pm

[Dustin Bowser] "I'm working on a feature film that has a separate event for each shoot day. "

I know who you are! ;)

[Dustin Bowser] "I have been breaking off various events to work on on my laptop so that I can focus in on various sections, doing logging of dialogue and adding markers, making selects etc....

I have an Edit that I would like to split off from my main machine and keep working on, and I would like every Event that refers to the project to come along with it. I want the WHOLE event, not just the footage used in the edit. I want the event as it exists now, I don't want anything moved, rearranged, reconsolidated or anything like that, because as I said, things are separated for specific reasons.

Now, before, this wasn't an issue because there was a function that existed that was precisely what I'm needing.

Now however, there doesn't seem to be any way to copy a project somewhere with anything but the actual media used.

Does this make sense what I'm trying to do?"


Kind of. It seems odd to keep two versions of the Library as you will do nothing but stay confused as you will need to constantly swap everything around.

I would either, keep one version of the library (kind of like using one FCP7 project file) on an external drive and use that external drive on both machines, or use XML to transfer Projects to and from each Library.

If you keep two separate versions of the Library, you will constantly need to update one or the other, and probably both. It will be next to impossible to track every single little change you made to each Library, Event, and Project within each Event and then reconcile them.

I have been trying to tell you that external media is easiest in situations like yours as it keeps libraries slimmer, and you can always reconnect.

I can think of a few ways to do this, and maybe there's more.

0) Reorganize your Library. Use One Event, and keep everything organized with keywords. This is very easy to do, and cuts down on your confusion.

1) Use only one version of the Library. Keep the Library on an external drive and plug that drive in to any machine you need to work on. This cuts down on any reconciling and keeps things more organized instead of trying to manage two massive projects. If you do want to have multiple Libraries, stop trying to duplicate everything in to those Libraries. If you want to split it off, truly split it off and make an all new Library with the Events you want, and delete them from the original library (use the "Move Event" command in the File menu for best results). it is easy to have multiple Libraries open, it is much harder to try and keep exact duplicates of every move you make in two separate Libraries.

2) Use XML. Create a library on one machine, copy that library to the other machine. Swap Project XMLs. If you create a new Event, you will have to copy that Event to the other machine's Library.

3) Use the "Copy Project to Library" function. Copy your Project from the one Library to the External Library. Yes, this creates a new Event, but it does not mean that the Project has to stay in that Event. Move it to wherever you want. This still means you have to reconcile two separate libraries. This is really the crux of your issue.

4) I would suggest learning more about how Libraries work. Here's a great resource: http://www.rippletraining.com/categories/apple-pro-apps-tutorials/final-cut...

Jeremy


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Dustin Bowser
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 10:27:59 pm

I understand how libraries work, it's just that the way they work isn't conducive to any kind of flexibility of a project.

The reason I keep splitting off events is because all of my main media is a very large Raid, and there is too much footage to just copy around on an External, and plus I want the faster disk speed of the internal drives vs an external when editing on the main machine.

The reason I need 2 Libraries, instead of just one, is because different work is being done on each one, and then needs to be merged back together.

The whole concept of this is that this is an enormous project, shot similarly to a documentary, so there are mountains of footage, so parts need to be broken off, worked on, and then merged again with the Monster project (Library). In any other edit system that exists this would be an incredibly easy and straight forward process...

But my real question is -- Are you just saying that the Copy Project with Referenced Events is just no longer in existence, because that is exactly the function I need to use.

Reorganizing the project is not an option, also because it's organized in the way I need it based on the needs of the project. I understand how Events, Keywords, etc...work and have it organized the way that is best for this project. I understand completely how another editor, with different needs and different footage would want to organize things differently. This is not the case. Organization is not the problem, it's how to simply get the Projects and Events back and forth.

I can't understand for the life of me why this would be so difficult and not straight forward. This is a very very common thing to need to do in many post houses. No wonder no one is adopting this as an editing solution. I love the interface and I love the timeline workflow, but it's this nonsense that is going to cause yet another editor to jump ship from FCPX.

I appreciate you trying to help by the way Jeremy, my frustration comes from the program, and the asinine way they've programmed certain things, and just arbitrarily taking way functions.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 11:01:20 pm

[Dustin Bowser] "The whole concept of this is that this is an enormous project, shot similarly to a documentary, so there are mountains of footage, so parts need to be broken off, worked on, and then merged again with the Monster project (Library). In any other edit system that exists this would be an incredibly easy and straight forward process..."

I guess what I can't seem to understand is why is this not straightforward in FCPX? You can swap sequences just as easily in FCPX as you an in FCP7 via Media Management or XML. But you also want to swap organization? And even with something like FCP7, you couldn't simply update a bin with the new information. You either imported the duplicate, or tried to reconcile the old bin and the new bin. Either way, you end up with two bins. FCPX is not that different with Events.

You can think of Events as bins (containers), Projects are sequences, and Libraries are project files.

[Dustin Bowser] "But my real question is -- Are you just saying that the Copy Project with Referenced Events is just no longer in existence, because that is exactly the function I need to use."

It is not. But it seems weird that you can't just drag the Events you want to the Library which is mounted on the external drive. If you need certain clips from certain Events that are contained in one Project, and you then want to keep the Event structure (but that is trimmed down from the original Library) you need to use an XML. Export an XML of the Project. Make a new Library on whatever drive you'd like, import the XML. You will then need to reconnect the media.

[Dustin Bowser] "I appreciate you trying to help by the way Jeremy, my frustration comes from the program, and the asinine way they've programmed certain things, and just arbitrarily taking way functions."

I'm not a big fan of how the Events work in Libraries, either. I don't know why they need to be so compartmentalized. This seems like an intermediate step in between whatever is coming next. This is why I like working with one Event and using keywords to separate what I need. It works better,and closer to how FCP 10.1 worked, but keeps the Library advantage.

But, to go back to what you need to do, tell me how you would do this in another program, because the way I see it, FCPX can work similarly.

Jeremy


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Dustin Bowser
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 11:12:37 pm

As you say, Events are Bins, which is why I have things organized the way they are. Within each event, I already have many keyword collections related to only the footage in that bin (event) which is why putting everything in one Event isn't an option.

It could potentially be possible if you could do multiple levels of keywording, similar to how folders work, but alas, yet another feature that would be nice that is missing..

I CAN just drag the events from my Main Library to my External one, but how am I going to know which events are referenced by this particular project? There also doesn't seem to be any easy way to find out at a glance which events are referenced by a project. We used to have this in the Inspector Tab of the projects view...but no more Referenced Events information either....

Again I stress, this is a large project with a bunch of different footage all being brought together in one world. On smaller projects I understand that the organization to this level isn't required. Which is probably why no one else is having these issues, because everyone else is smartly using Avid or Premiere at this point.

In FCP 7 it would be really easy to do why I'm trying to do, simply by duplicating the project and dumping the bins you don't need. You can drag bins and things between projects very easily, and simply relink also very easily if necessary.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 29, 2014 at 11:40:43 pm

[Dustin Bowser] "It could potentially be possible if you could do multiple levels of keywording, similar to how folders work, but alas, yet another feature that would be nice that is missing.."

You can add as many keywords to a clip as you want.

You make a folder that is named the same as your Events are now. You would also keyword every clip in that Event with the same name

In there, you add keyword collections and drag the appropriate keyword collections to the appropriate folder. You can then click on each folder and it will show you only the media from that folder, similar to how you are using Events now. You will then be able to add smart collections and other metadata gathering across your entire library, instead of being locked to Event by Event.

It would look something like this: (image)



[Dustin Bowser] "I CAN just drag the events from my Main Library to my External one, but how am I going to know which events are referenced by this particular project? There also doesn't seem to be any easy way to find out at a glance which events are referenced by a project. We used to have this in the Inspector Tab of the projects view...but no more Referenced Events information either...."

Projects can live in any Event, they aren't tied to 'specific' Events as they were in 10.0. In 10.0, if you duped a Project and the Referenced Event, it would grab every single clip in the Event, not just what was in the Project, and copy it.

If you duped the Project and choose "+ used clips" it would make a new Event. 10.1 works the exact same way, but there's a Library involved now. This is why I'm confused that you are confused.

[Dustin Bowser] "In FCP 7 it would be really easy to do why I'm trying to do, simply by duplicating the project and dumping the bins you don't need. You can drag bins and things between projects very easily, and simply relink also very easily if necessary."

OK, so tell me how you knew which bins to drag over in FCP7? There's no report telling you which bins the footage resides in.

Brother, this is what I am trying to tell you. FCPX works the same way, but it all starts with how you imported your media in the first place, which I mentioned to you a few days ago (consolidate your original media out of the Library. It cuts down on file size and duplications). If you work from external media, relinking is a breeze in FCPX.


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Dustin Bowser
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 30, 2014 at 12:58:39 am

Yes, duping every clip in the event is exactly what I'm looking for. That is my point.

So if I have to go through and do it manually, is there some way to see each event that is referenced, or am I going to have to go in and match frame every single clip to find out if I missed one...

The reason I don't want everything collected in one Event with keyword collections is because the keyword collections will put things together that I don't want together.

For instance -- Each Event right now has a keyword collection called 'Synced' to indicated the clips that are synced multicam. As it is now, broken into Events, if I click that keyword collection I see only the synced clips for that shoot, which is what I want.

If I'm adding 'synced' to every synced clip, when I click the 'synced' keyword collection, I'm going to be seeing every synced clip from the whole shoot. Not what I want. I want my keywords specific to which part of the shoot its a part of. That is part of the problem with Keywords as they're currently implemented, if you've used a keyword, then if you want to apply that keyword to something else they are going to live together whether you like it or not.

What's nice about folders is that what you put in there is what there is, and what you take out is what there is, and you get to decide what to name it and where it goes in the hierarchy.

Keywords collect things in nice ways sometimes, but sometimes I don't want them collected that way, as is my case with this project. Does that make sense why I would have things in Events as I do?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What happened to Copy Project and Referenced Events in 10.1?
on Jan 30, 2014 at 2:09:43 am

[Dustin Bowser] "Yes, duping every clip in the event is exactly what I'm looking for. That is my point. "

So, even if your Project has one clip in it from an Event, and that Event has 100s of clips, you want FCPX to copy those 100s of clips all for that one clip in the Project?

Have you tried an XML export yet? It will get you want you want. Just import it in to a new Library. If you import to an existing Library, it will get messy. You will then have to reconnect media to the media on your external drive.

[Dustin Bowser] "For instance -- Each Event right now has a keyword collection called 'Synced' to indicated the clips that are synced multicam. As it is now, broken into Events, if I click that keyword collection I see only the synced clips for that shoot, which is what I want.

If I'm adding 'synced' to every synced clip, when I click the 'synced' keyword collection, I'm going to be seeing every synced clip from the whole shoot. Not what I want. I want my keywords specific to which part of the shoot its a part of. That is part of the problem with Keywords as they're currently implemented, if you've used a keyword, then if you want to apply that keyword to something else they are going to live together whether you like it or not."


The only place they live together is on the clip itself, not in each collection. You can also select multiple keywords and display all of those together.

That's what I like about keywords, they can separate or bring together. In your case you simply add a date or another modifier like "8_14_Synced". You can then start to add Smart collections which can bring together ALL of your synced clips in one place, or all clips that have "8_14" or you can add text modifiers to include or exclude. In my eyes, it's much more powerful as you can sort everything in multiple ways instead of just by shoot date (there's also a metadata field to sort by date)..

[Dustin Bowser] "What's nice about folders is that what you put in there is what there is, and what you take out is what there is, and you get to decide what to name it and where it goes in the hierarchy."

Sorry, I'm having trouble following that one.

[Dustin Bowser] "Keywords collect things in nice ways sometimes, but sometimes I don't want them collected that way, as is my case with this project. Does that make sense why I would have things in Events as I do?"

I can see why you do it the way you do it. It's how every other NLE structures things in bins. The problem for me is that it cuts off footage by Event and I find it less flexible and less powerful.

If you need to find out which Events are in your Project, single click on the Project in the Browser (or hit option-shift-f to reveal the Project in the Browser). In the "Share" tab, find the "Tags" field you type 'Events' and it should give you a little blue Events pill. It should look something like this:



Now choose Share > Master File, and in the export window, it will list all of the Events associated with that Project.

Jeremy


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